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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 18:30
by godlameroso
There's no damage to the ICE. The MGU-K didn't provide drive, so it is likely a control electronics issue. Luckily there's time to rectify the problem
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 18:32
by Sieper
He would have been doing the same wrong his last 3 starts (Monza, Monza after red flag) mugello. Same for Albon as his starts have also seen him go in reverse (not to the same extent as max but still). He also said pre race to fear losing places at start.
Bu they would have certainly spoken about what not and what to do after Monza. I don’t think it is operator induced.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:19
by Wouter
godlameroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 18:30
There's no damage to the ICE. The MGU-K didn't provide drive,
so it is likely a control electronics issue.
Luckily there's time to rectify the problem
Is the result already known? Is that your own conclusion or from your source within Honda?
I've read that the CE is provided by Magneti Marelli, so it's not Honda's fault?
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:21
by etusch
godlameroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 18:30
There's no damage to the ICE. The MGU-K didn't provide drive, so it is likely a control electronics issue. Luckily there's time to rectify the problem
Maybe it is just unmaturity of new mode. They were the one who wanted to postphone it
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:28
by 63l8qrrfy6
The engine mode ban does not really affect how the ERS operates but rather it is primarily aimed at ICE maps.
As someone has pointed out already, this particular PU has had its gremlins ever since it was first introduced. Whatever it is, it seems to be ERS related and it appears to be particularly affected by grid starts.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:37
by TNTHead
ispano6 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 17:40
TNTHead wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 17:30
Didn't they start races poorly last year as well (Austria '19 comes in mind)? After that Honda was busy optimizing their start mapping.
Couldn't it (beside cooling issues) be that with the single mode directive they have poor starts because of their (may be workaround) solution that is cut short? It was quite obvious that Albons restarts at Mugello were also suboptimal.
The single mode directive applies to the race, not formation and reconnaissance. I don't think they are running an aggressive mode on the outlap to the grid.
According to Autosport
Teams will be allowed to run different engine modes for in and out-laps in qualifying where the power units need to harvest energy, and will also allow different modes for laps run under the safety car, the formation laps and the lap after the chequered flag.
I don't know if I understand it correctly but the race start isn't part of the formation lap? Then the start should be done with fixed qualy/race mapping.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:41
by 1158
If it were down to the mapping I would expect SAT to have start issues too. They seem to be fine at the starts. Gasly's start in Monza won the race.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:44
by etusch
Mudflap wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:28
The engine mode ban does not really affect how the ERS operates but rather it is primarily aimed at ICE maps.
As someone has pointed out already, this particular PU has had its gremlins ever since it was first introduced. Whatever it is, it seems to be ERS related and it appears to be particularly affected by grid starts.
whatever it is, just swap with newer one and wait chassis updates. sometimes it never be fixed whatever you do
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:48
by Wouter
ispano6 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 18:08
Still early days but here is an interview from
https://www.as-web.jp/f1/624522?all
──パワーユニットのトラブル原因は？
q: What is the cause of the power unit trouble?
田辺TD：すでに日本でも調べ始めていますが、まだわかっていません。
a: Analysis has also already started in Japan, but we do not know yet.
Thanks for the translation @Ispano!
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 19:54
by ispano6
TNTHead wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:37
ispano6 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 17:40
TNTHead wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 17:30
Didn't they start races poorly last year as well (Austria '19 comes in mind)? After that Honda was busy optimizing their start mapping.
Couldn't it (beside cooling issues) be that with the single mode directive they have poor starts because of their (may be workaround) solution that is cut short? It was quite obvious that Albons restarts at Mugello were also suboptimal.
The single mode directive applies to the race, not formation and reconnaissance. I don't think they are running an aggressive mode on the outlap to the grid.
According to Autosport
Teams will be allowed to run different engine modes for in and out-laps in qualifying where the power units need to harvest energy, and will also allow different modes for laps run under the safety car, the formation laps and the lap after the chequered flag.
I don't know if I understand it correctly but the race start isn't part of the formation lap? Then the start should be done with fixed qualy/race mapping.
I'm with you, not sure what formation lap setting is for Red Bull Rb16 and Max. I would think it's the race setting. The outlap from garage to grid I don't think has to be, but who knows.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 20:11
by NL_Fer
godlameroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 18:30
There's no damage to the ICE. The MGU-K didn't provide drive, so it is likely a control electronics issue. Luckily there's time to rectify the problem
Who knows maybe the K turns bad under load/heat and disrupts the CE.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 20:44
by 63l8qrrfy6
etusch wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:44
Mudflap wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:28
The engine mode ban does not really affect how the ERS operates but rather it is primarily aimed at ICE maps.
As someone has pointed out already, this particular PU has had its gremlins ever since it was first introduced. Whatever it is, it seems to be ERS related and it appears to be particularly affected by grid starts.
whatever it is, just swap with newer one and wait chassis updates. sometimes it never be fixed whatever you do
Then the risk is they don't fully understand the issue and the new PU fails in a similar fashion.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 20:47
by etusch
Mudflap wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 20:44
etusch wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:44
ko
Mudflap wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:28
The engine mode ban does not really affect how the ERS operates but rather it is primarily aimed at ICE maps.
As someone has pointed out already, this particular PU has had its gremlins ever since it was first introduced. Whatever it is, it seems to be ERS related and it appears to be particularly affected by grid starts.
whatever it is, just swap with newer one and wait chassis updates. sometimes it never be fixed whatever you do
Then the risk is they don't fully understand the issue and the new PU fails in a similar fashion.
I don't say "don't figure out it" , just saying don't try to use it any more
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 21:00
by 63l8qrrfy6
etusch wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 20:47
I don't say "don't figure out it" , just saying don't try to use it any more
In which case they might have to take a penalty at some point since a 4th PU will likely be required.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 12:37
by Jaisonas
Wouter wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 19:19
godlameroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 18:30
There's no damage to the ICE. The MGU-K didn't provide drive,
so it is likely a control electronics issue.
Luckily there's time to rectify the problem
Is the result already known? Is that your own conclusion or from your source within Honda?
I've read that the CE is provided by Magneti Marelli, so it's not Honda's fault?
CE have always been manufactured and distributed by mclaren and its the same in all cars.