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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 22 Oct 2021, 12:59
by etusch
...and if fia keen to be decieved you can be damn reliable
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 22 Oct 2021, 15:23
by LaplacesDemon
Roostfactor wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 07:40
Hoffman900 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 21:12
subcritical71 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 18:32
Yeah, I’m thinking that is one of their seals.
I see it now, and I agree.
I would think they would put the seal across splitlines of components so they would know if the seal/component was tampered with.
If not, what would stop teams from opening up their engines and freshening them up?
To open up the engine they would first need to disassemble the sealed bolts, simple as that.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 22 Oct 2021, 17:14
by Hoffman900
LaplacesDemon wrote: ↑22 Oct 2021, 15:23
Roostfactor wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 07:40
Hoffman900 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2021, 21:12
I see it now, and I agree.
I would think they would put the seal across splitlines of components so they would know if the seal/component was tampered with.
If not, what would stop teams from opening up their engines and freshening them up?
To open up the engine they would first need to disassemble the sealed bolts, simple as that.
Exactly. This is how it's done from the local circle track up through IMSA, and apparently F1.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 27 Oct 2021, 22:03
by Alexf1
Do we know if the leaking Silvertone engine is still usable as Friday practice engine? Could take miles off engine nr.3 and 4
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 15:39
by godlameroso
Depends on how bad the leak is, also consider that any seeping oil will wind up on stuff surrounding the engine. It could get messy in there, think of the mechanics.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 18:54
by Alexf1
godlameroso wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 15:39
Depends on how bad the leak is, also consider that any seeping oil will wind up on stuff surrounding the engine. It could get messy in there, think of the mechanics.
Yes, strange the leak was not there during dyno check and not during 3 free practices, only after qualifying with the highest engine setting. I just hope that they were able to fix the leak from the outside and use the engine on low settings as friday engine. This way miles on engine nr.3 and 4 can be limited as I don't think engine nr.1 is still the friday engine unless it's capable of doing more than 6.500 km..
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 18:56
by Big Tea
Do we know that it is a leak from inside to outside not a joining of one substance or pressure with another?
Possibly an internal to internal 'leak' of fluid or gas?
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 20:23
by Alexf1
Big Tea wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 18:56
Do we know that it is a leak from inside to outside not a joining of one substance or pressure with another?
Possibly an internal to internal 'leak' of fluid or gas?
Don't think so. It's been awfully quiet. It's a writeoff as a race engine I read but haven't heard if they could still use it as a friday practice engine on low modes. What I did notice is that in the 2nd half of the season RB have been relatively slow on friday so they are either always having setup issues or are taking it easy on the engine side which could indicate they can't run it higher (engine nr.2) or are stretching mileage (engine nr.1 or 3)
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 22:42
by godlameroso
Alexf1 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 20:23
Big Tea wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 18:56
Do we know that it is a leak from inside to outside not a joining of one substance or pressure with another?
Possibly an internal to internal 'leak' of fluid or gas?
Don't think so. It's been awfully quiet. It's a writeoff as a race engine I read but haven't heard if they could still use it as a friday practice engine on low modes. What I did notice is that in the 2nd half of the season RB have been relatively slow on friday so they are either always having setup issues or are taking it easy on the engine side which could indicate they can't run it higher (engine nr.2) or are stretching mileage (engine nr.1 or 3)
I think the truth is somewhere in between.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 18 Nov 2021, 16:29
by Morteza
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 22 Nov 2021, 21:23
by mstar
ANyone know what Max's PU used for Qatar and how many races his PUs have done?
I think you guys are right he is definitely managing milage on his PU, maybe leaving the most new for the power tracks coming up.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 24 Nov 2021, 04:38
by PlatinumZealot
The Honda is basically at it's limit based on this evidence:
1) Honda q3 power modes in recent years did not give a big bump in power
2) Honda ran a "safe" detuned map in the first few races of the year to protect or assess reliability.
3) To the external viewer Honda has never attempted to run the engine in an over-power mode in any session this season even when they were on the back foot or when they had the the best chance to run an old engine in Friday practice in such a power mode.
My conclusion is that the Honda engine is already near or at it's peak sustained performance. Even if they build an engine design for two races, the engine could be already combustion limited...
Just my estimation of course.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 25 Nov 2021, 06:54
by etusch
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑24 Nov 2021, 04:38
The Honda is basically at it's limit based on this evidence:
1) Honda q3 power modes in recent years did not give a big bump in power
2) Honda ran a "safe" detuned map in the first few races of the year to protect or assess reliability.
3) To the external viewer Honda has never attempted to run the engine in an over-power mode in any session this season even when they were on the back foot or when they had the the best chance to run an old engine in Friday practice in such a power mode.
My conclusion is that the Honda engine is already near or at it's peak sustained performance. Even if they build an engine design for two races, the engine could be already combustion limited...
Just my estimation of course.
no, it is just a wishful thinking and shows not understanding Honda aproach to engineering. Mercedes doing what did you said because they don't have any chance otherwise.
ın the other hand merc fan claim that there is no such a big difference in straight line speed which is indication of power.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 25 Nov 2021, 07:04
by _cerber1
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑24 Nov 2021, 04:38
The Honda is basically at it's limit based on this evidence:
1) Honda q3 power modes in recent years did not give a big bump in power
2) Honda ran a "safe" detuned map in the first few races of the year to protect or assess reliability.
3) To the external viewer Honda has never attempted to run the engine in an over-power mode in any session this season even when they were on the back foot or when they had the the best chance to run an old engine in Friday practice in such a power mode.
My conclusion is that the Honda engine is already near or at it's peak sustained performance. Even if they build an engine design for two races, the engine could be already combustion limited...
Just my estimation of course.
According to Marko, they were shocked by the power that they saw in the Brazilian Hamilton motor, according to their estimates, he was able to add an additional 15 kW, for a similar request, Honda said that they could only give 4 kW.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 25 Nov 2021, 09:40
by Wouter
_cerber1 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2021, 07:04
According to Marko, ......... for a similar request,
Honda said that they could only give 4 kW.
.
Could you give me a link for that? I can't find it. Thanks.