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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 02:50
by PlatinumZealot
Why did they use electro-mechanical over electro-hydraulic for the HSTA?
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 10:21
by Tommy Cookers
because the horizontal stabiliser aka tailplane is not moved constantly ie at significant frequency
(I could say it's a jack but there's no law saying electromechanical actuation must be non-backdriveable)
in textbooks trimming eg via HS actuation is classified as secondary flight control
though Moog has tabulated it as primary flight control
trimming action is a slow and infrequent activity
unlike primary control
eg pitch control via the EH elevator servoactuator
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 10:40
by johnny comelately
Maybe a dumb question, but why are they using VLIM on (e-turbos)turbo engines?
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 13:48
by godlameroso
1. Because the rules allow it.
2. The intake system makes a big difference in area under the curve.
Honda gained 20kw from improving the airbox design alone.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 14:06
by Tommy Cookers
because VLIM gives the most free supercharging over the rpm range used
giving a reduction in compressor work and tending to reduce exhaust pressure
producing an increase in H energy harvest or an increase in ICE power or both
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 14:16
by johnny comelately
Thank you fellas, thats illuminating
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2018, 18:47
by bucker
Renault says reliability looks good, so all three teams will have a little bit more power from now onwards. MGU-K upgrade planned with second round of power units.
Source:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... e-1025524/
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2018, 21:08
by PlatinumZealot
Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 10:21
because the horizontal stabiliser aka tailplane is not moved constantly ie at significant frequency
(I could say it's a jack but there's no law saying electromechanical actuation must be non-backdriveable)
in textbooks trimming eg via HS actuation is classified as secondary flight control
though Moog has tabulated it as primary flight control
trimming action is a slow and infrequent activity
unlike primary control
eg pitch control via the EH elevator servoactuator
Ok so basically they can get away with a simpler, low demand system for that then.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2018, 22:25
by 63l8qrrfy6
I am not quite sure why electric vs hydraulic is still being debated.
All cars already carry a hydraulic pump so why not actuate everything hydraulically? An electrical actuator is several times heavier than a hydraulic actuator since it normally consists of a low power electric motor that drives a large reduction gearbox to generate any useful torque.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2018, 23:05
by bill shoe
johnny comelately wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 10:40
Maybe a dumb question, but why are they using VLIM on (e-turbos)turbo engines?
There are other good answers above. I'd say in a turbocharged engine with very narrow rpm range (10,500 - 12,000 rpm) there is relatively little gain from variable intakes. But F1 is so competitive you have to turn every knob available to you, not just the high-gain knobs.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2018, 23:35
by godlameroso
Mudflap wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 22:25
I am not quite sure why electric vs hydraulic is still being debated.
All cars already carry a hydraulic pump so why not actuate everything hydraulically? An electrical actuator is several times heavier than a hydraulic actuator since it normally consists of a low power electric motor that drives a large reduction gearbox to generate any useful torque.
Because I say crazy out there things so they feel the need to prove me wrong. I am wrong some times, as you showed with my mistaken assumption that rod length changed displacement. If I'm wrong I'm willing to accept it and move on, otherwise I will defend my craziness to the death.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 00:08
by djos
Mudflap wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 22:25
I am not quite sure why electric vs hydraulic is still being debated.
All cars already carry a hydraulic pump so why not actuate everything hydraulically? An electrical actuator is several times heavier than a hydraulic actuator since it normally consists of a low power electric motor that drives a large reduction gearbox to generate any useful torque.
Because hydraulic lines full of hydraulic fluid running the length of the car would weigh more than electric cables.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 00:43
by Tommy Cookers
rather often the hydraulics don't seem reliable - or is this just an excuse - the 'loss of hydraulic pressure' ?
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 00:48
by 1158
Is it more power though? This line makes it sound like it's not an increase in the power they currently have, just more use of the high power mode.
The works Enstone outfit, Red Bull Racing and McLaren are henceforth all allowed to use higher power modes for longer than was the case in Australia and Bahrain.
I hope it's more power, make a it a proper 3 way fight at the front, but that may have to wait until PU #2.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 01:05
by FPV GTHO
I interpreted it as more use of the existing modes.