F1technical.net

hugobos wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 18:54

An idea, I work in a powerplant, we use oil cooled transformers. We have in the oil circuit an hydran analyzer, to monitor the oil. When the transformer gets a hot spot one of the indicators is hydrogen production. I wonder if you fill your radiator and cooling circuit of an f1 engine could you produce hydrogen from the oil with that heat. Hydrogen is then vented and fed into the engine airinlet. Hydrogen produces no smoke ...and a lot of power...

NL_Fer wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 18:42

Could it be hidden so FIA will never find out?

MtthsMlw wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 14:22

f1rules wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 14:07

Question: with the demands of the mexico circuit and the thin air limitations, will that maybe help others gain insight to ferraris advantage, i mean If its not ice/combustion related, but of electrical and harvesting nature their advantage could potentially grow in mexico??
if so im sure theyll hide though, because right now the others dont have a clue and are shooting in the dark

Mexico doesn't appear to be that power sensitive, last year we had a RB 1-2 in quali using the Renault PU.

hugobos wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 18:54

An idea, I work in a powerplant, we use oil cooled transformers. We have in the oil circuit an hydran analyzer, to monitor the oil. When the transformer gets a hot spot one of the indicators is hydrogen production. I wonder if you fill your radiator and cooling circuit of an f1 engine could you produce hydrogen from the oil with that heat. Hydrogen is then vented and fed into the engine airinlet. Hydrogen produces no smoke ...and a lot of power...

atanatizante wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 21:58

hugobos wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 18:54

An idea, I work in a powerplant, we use oil cooled transformers. We have in the oil circuit an hydran analyzer, to monitor the oil. When the transformer gets a hot spot one of the indicators is hydrogen production. I wonder if you fill your radiator and cooling circuit of an f1 engine could you produce hydrogen from the oil with that heat. Hydrogen is then vented and fed into the engine airinlet. Hydrogen produces no smoke ...and a lot of power...

I don`t think it`s possible due to coolant - oil - goes by an internal circuit through rads and they have to be sure it doesn`t leak over just not putting into jeopardy their ICE ...

But it`s an interesting idea to use H2 - hydrogen molecules - in order to boost power!

This gas is very easy to obtained when you electrolyze the water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water And the chemical reaction is very fast when you are using a 1000 Amps DC current coming out of the ES for a couple of seconds. In addition to H2, there`s a secondary product which is obtained: oxygen - O2. The amount of H2 generated is almost twice the amount of O2, and both are proportional to the total electrical charge conducted by the solution ...

So they could place a small 1-litre salted water electrolyzer (such as an Hofmann voltameter) near the ICE, which has 2 "breathers" one for each gas ... The downside is the amount of water they could carry on: water electrolysis is an exergonic reaction which leads to waste heat hence water evaporation... Then another issue is that H2 is highly volatile and dangerous ...

On the same note, one interesting idea is to produce H2 via HTE - High-temperature electrolysis. The efficiency of HTE is best appreciated by assuming that the electricity used comes from a waste heat engine, and then considering the amount of heat energy necessary to produce 1 kg H2 - hydrogen - (141.86 megajoules), both in the HTE process itself and also in producing the electricity used. At 100 °C, 350 megajoules of thermal energy is required (41% efficient). At 850 °C, 225 megajoules are required (64% efficient).

This method could also generate electricity but I don`t think it`s enough and secondly is allowed to do that ...

atanatizante wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 21:58

hugobos wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 18:54

An idea, I work in a powerplant, we use oil cooled transformers. We have in the oil circuit an hydran analyzer, to monitor the oil. When the transformer gets a hot spot one of the indicators is hydrogen production. I wonder if you fill your radiator and cooling circuit of an f1 engine could you produce hydrogen from the oil with that heat. Hydrogen is then vented and fed into the engine airinlet. Hydrogen produces no smoke ...and a lot of power...

I don`t think it`s possible due to coolant - oil - goes by an internal circuit through rads and they have to be sure it doesn`t leak over just not putting into jeopardy their ICE ...

But it`s an interesting idea to use H2 - hydrogen molecules - in order to boost power!

This gas is very easy to obtained when you electrolyze the water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water And the chemical reaction is very fast when you are using a 1000 Amps DC current coming out of the ES for a couple of seconds. In addition to H2, there`s a secondary product which is obtained: oxygen - O2. The amount of H2 generated is almost twice the amount of O2, and both are proportional to the total electrical charge conducted by the solution ...

So they could place a small 1-litre salted water electrolyzer (such as an Hofmann voltameter) near the ICE, which has 2 "breathers" one for each gas ... The downside is the amount of water they could carry on: water electrolysis is an exergonic reaction which leads to waste heat hence water evaporation... Then another issue is that H2 is highly volatile and dangerous ...

On the same note, one interesting idea is to produce H2 via HTE - High-temperature electrolysis. The efficiency of HTE is best appreciated by assuming that the electricity used comes from a waste heat engine, and then considering the amount of heat energy necessary to produce 1 kg H2 - hydrogen - (141.86 megajoules), both in the HTE process itself and also in producing the electricity used. At 100 °C, 350 megajoules of thermal energy is required (41% efficient). At 850 °C, 225 megajoules are required (64% efficient).

This method could also generate electricity but I don`t think it`s enough and secondly is allowed to do that ...

henry wrote: ↑

17 Oct 2019, 10:20

Perhaps Ferrari have improved their turbine. That would increase the MGU-H output which means that the ES would suffer less load in self sustain plus mode, and they would have more power in self sustain. It might also mean that the turbine supplies more aid to the MGU-H in e-boost again reducing the drain from the ES.

This would mean that they could, on a typical straight, run e-boost longer followed by self sustain plus longer, followed by a higher power self sustain for the rest of the straight.

This would mean similar increased acceleration from say 230kph compared with a car with inferior turbine output.

It may not be one thing but that’s one that would make a difference.

selvam_e2002 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2019, 06:31

As Ferrari has more power in straight line and one lap power, why it is not available for other customer teams like, Alfo, HASS? Why there are struggling?

I may silly to ask these question sorry.

1. Why customer team not getting the same benefit from Ferrari? Is there a rule or policy that restrict customer team not to use the same component with same tuning as ferrari?

2. If customer team also has same engine component then the speed of ferrari come from Chase?