F1technical.net

godlameroso wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 17:06

saviour stivala wrote: ↑

25 Oct 2019, 12:21

.poz wrote: ↑

25 Oct 2019, 10:12

ES->MGUH is unlimited...

so you can
open the waste gate to gain a bit of power form ICE runnig compressor by electrical power
or
build a heavier turbo compressor and use it to store a small amount of energy continuously switching the flux ES to MGUH MGUH to MGUK (both unlimited)

“ES > MGU-H is unlimited”. But what is max SOC of ES?.

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send the other 2 after spending the 4, that's ok.

So you could harvest 6, send 4 to the MGU-K and then 2 to the MGU-H, and that would be ok, as long as the virtual battery was within the 4MJ SOC. Because the virtual battery can be depleted and refilled independent of laps.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 22:32

godlameroso wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 17:06

saviour stivala wrote: ↑

25 Oct 2019, 12:21

“ES > MGU-H is unlimited”. But what is max SOC of ES?.

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send the other 2 after spending the 4, that's ok.

So you could harvest 6, send 4 to the MGU-K and then 2 to the MGU-H, and that would be ok, as long as the virtual battery was within the 4MJ SOC. Because the virtual battery can be depleted and refilled independent of laps.

The battery powers other devices. The energy cap is just for the MGUK i believe. Even battery to mguh is unlimited. The mguh drains the battery pretty quickly so abusing that usage is at the teams own peril. Correct me if i am wrong though

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 22:32

godlameroso wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 17:06

saviour stivala wrote: ↑

25 Oct 2019, 12:21

“ES > MGU-H is unlimited”. But what is max SOC of ES?.

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send the other 2 after spending the 4, that's ok.

So you could harvest 6, send 4 to the MGU-K and then 2 to the MGU-H, and that would be ok, as long as the virtual battery was within the 4MJ SOC. Because the virtual battery can be depleted and refilled independent of laps.

The battery powers other devices. The energy cap is just for the MGUK i believe. Even battery to mguh is unlimited. The mguh drains the battery pretty quickly so abusing that usage is at the teams own peril. Correct me if i am wrong though

djones wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 19:53

Talk on multiple other forums suggests Mercedes and Honda now know what Ferrari are doing.

Two teams are said to be considering a protest (presumably the two Honda teams).

Toto has allegedly said they need to implement it on their car in an interview with Sky.

henry wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 00:33

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send

There are three energy caps.

The SOC applies to everything. It is probably monitored by integrating flow across the sensor at the ES

The two MGU-K caps are probably monitored by summing simultaneous flow across the two sensors that monitor such things.

I may be wrong. But I’ve not seen any other explanation of how the energy caps are monitored using the two sensors.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 22:32

godlameroso wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 17:06

saviour stivala wrote: ↑

25 Oct 2019, 12:21

“ES > MGU-H is unlimited”. But what is max SOC of ES?.

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send the other 2 after spending the 4, that's ok.

So you could harvest 6, send 4 to the MGU-K and then 2 to the MGU-H, and that would be ok, as long as the virtual battery was within the 4MJ SOC. Because the virtual battery can be depleted and refilled independent of laps.

The battery powers other devices. The energy cap is just for the MGUK i believe. Even battery to mguh is unlimited. The mguh drains the battery pretty quickly so abusing that usage is at the teams own peril. Correct me if i am wrong though

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 01:08

henry wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 00:33

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send

There are three energy caps.

The SOC applies to everything. It is probably monitored by integrating flow across the sensor at the ES

The two MGU-K caps are probably monitored by summing simultaneous flow across the two sensors that monitor such things.

I may be wrong. But I’ve not seen any other explanation of how the energy caps are monitored using the two sensors.

Apparently ers to "other auxiliaries" is unlimited!
The max/min difference in state of charge is the limit yes. But that shouldn't be an issue if you are getting a bigger return in combustion by siphoning off the unlimited flow that would go from mguh to mguk via the battery.

https://statics.sportskeeda.com/wp-cont ... 24x606.jpg

godlameroso wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 02:53

The MGU-H has a max power rating of ~80kw correct?

godlameroso wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 02:53

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 22:32

godlameroso wrote: ↑

26 Oct 2019, 17:06

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send the other 2 after spending the 4, that's ok.

So you could harvest 6, send 4 to the MGU-K and then 2 to the MGU-H, and that would be ok, as long as the virtual battery was within the 4MJ SOC. Because the virtual battery can be depleted and refilled independent of laps.

The battery powers other devices. The energy cap is just for the MGUK i believe. Even battery to mguh is unlimited. The mguh drains the battery pretty quickly so abusing that usage is at the teams own peril. Correct me if i am wrong though

The MGU-H has a max power rating of ~80kw correct? So how would it sap more energy than the MGU-K which has a 120kW power rating. I do believe that you need an ES that has more than 4MJ to power both the way Ferrari is doing.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 01:08

henry wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 00:33

The ES itself has unlimited capacity(of course it's limited by battery chemistry). Max SOC per lap is 4MJ, so even if the ES can store 10MJ, no more than 4MJ can be used per lap. In addition to the 4MJ to MGU-K requirement, you are also not allowed to pool more than 4MJ. In other words there is a virtual battery that is capped at 4MJ. So if you harvest 4MJ and spend 4MJ that is ok. If you harvest 5MJ and spend 4 that's ok. If you harvest 5 and spend 5, that's not ok. If you harvest 6 and spend 4, then send

There are three energy caps.

The SOC applies to everything. It is probably monitored by integrating flow across the sensor at the ES

The two MGU-K caps are probably monitored by summing simultaneous flow across the two sensors that monitor such things.

I may be wrong. But I’ve not seen any other explanation of how the energy caps are monitored using the two sensors.

Apparently ers to "other auxiliaries" is unlimited!
The max/min difference in state of charge is the limit yes. But that shouldn't be an issue if you are getting a bigger return in combustion by siphoning off the unlimited flow that would go from mguh to mguk via the battery.

https://statics.sportskeeda.com/wp-cont ... 24x606.jpg

Zynerji wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 05:30

Could a team send power to the alternator and use that like a MGU-K?

I had suspected this with Renault burning alternators at the end of the V8 era...

saviour stivala wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2019, 06:09

Energy store (ES) art 1.27. The difference between the maximum and the minimum stat of charge of the ES may not exceed 4MJ ‘at any time’ the car is on track.
To my mind the above simply means that 4MJ is the maximum that is allowed either to be extracted or returned to the ES ‘at any time’ the car is on track.
Returning 6MJ to the ES and extracting 6 MJ from the ES and splitting it 4MJ to ‘K’ and 2MJ to ‘H’ will exceed the “4MJ at any time the car is on track” rules. This is different from being able to ‘top-up’ the maximum permitted 4MJ for more than one time while the car is on track and or over one lap.