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Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 14:09

So the PU is perfectly legal, what’s next?

Eventually they'll lose their advantage as others catch up again.

MtthsMlw wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:17

Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 14:09

So the PU is perfectly legal, what’s next?

Eventually they'll lose their advantage as others catch up again.

They have been using and developing whatever they’re doing for 2 years now. And every time they bring an upgraded PU it’s a big step forward. Not sure others will catch up that easily.

LM10 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:28

They have been using and developing whatever they’re doing for 2 years now. And every time they bring an upgraded PU it’s a big step forward. Not sure others will catch up that easily.

The old 90/10 rule applies here. The other teams don't need to reach parity, they don't even need to reach 90% of what Ferrari has 50-60% would go a long way towards nullifying Ferrari's advantage on the straits.

Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 14:09

So the PU is perfectly legal, what’s next?

It means (IMO) the teams are still in the dark and haven’t clarified the right area yet. Either that, or they haven’t filed the right protest.

You either copy them, assuming you know what they are doing, and run the risk to later be protested by the teams that don’t follow - or you make a specific inquiry into the legality of what you intend to do. If the FIA say no, it’s not allowed, you protest the team in question (like Racingpoint did with Renault).

In my opinion, what we are seeing is not a result of multiple years incrementally creating a solution. It was a one-off discovery, be that technical or a loophole in the rules.

I think they have a good engine and low drag car and this is what we see in the races where it's hard for people to overtake them.

Qualifying is another matter and it's whatever this is that the other teams seem to go on about more than anything. They have a special 'trick' in qualifying and if they didn't have that they would have maybe won 1 or at best 2 races this season. And that puts it in perspective really and means Ferrari fans like myself should not get their expectations up about next year. It was the qualifying magic that made them somewhat competitive and if that is nullified then it's back to complete Mercedes domination and fighting with the Redbull all year.

dans79 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:50

LM10 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:28

They have been using and developing whatever they’re doing for 2 years now. And every time they bring an upgraded PU it’s a big step forward. Not sure others will catch up that easily.

The old 90/10 rule applies here. The other teams don't need to reach parity, they don't even need to reach 90% of what Ferrari has 50-60% would go a long way towards nullifying Ferrari's advantage on the straits.

Ferrari obviously won't stop developing either. When we look at how significant their spec 3 PU performance jump relative to the prior spec was, it seems that there still is much room for improvement.
I'm curious, if Mercedes actually knows what Ferrari is doing and if yes, if they can implement it on their PU easily. Maybe they would need to change the whole PU concept. When I heard that they were changing the PU concept before the current season started, I thought that they might have implemented it already. But wasn't the case.

LM10 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 17:09

I'm curious, if Mercedes actually knows what Ferrari is doing and if yes, if they can implement it on their PU easily. Maybe they would need to change the whole PU concept. When I heard that they were changing the PU concept before the current season started, I thought that they might have implemented it already. But wasn't the case.

I think that all depends on what Ferrari is doing. They might be doing more than one thing, I mean after all two different teams are questioning 2 unrelated areas of the PU.

LM10 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:28

MtthsMlw wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:17

Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 14:09

So the PU is perfectly legal, what’s next?

Eventually they'll lose their advantage as others catch up again.

They have been using and developing whatever they’re doing for 2 years now. And every time they bring an upgraded PU it’s a big step forward. Not sure others will catch up that easily.

quote this!.. and rumors talk about ERS related.

i dont think Mercedes knows what Ferrari does already.. In mexico there was a rumor in the paddock saying that Toto wanted to protest after the race. But the rumor turned public and when press asked about it to Toto, he just said that they already knows what to do for next here. Imo that was PR strategic game.

LM10 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 17:09

dans79 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:50

LM10 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:28

They have been using and developing whatever they’re doing for 2 years now. And every time they bring an upgraded PU it’s a big step forward. Not sure others will catch up that easily.

The old 90/10 rule applies here. The other teams don't need to reach parity, they don't even need to reach 90% of what Ferrari has 50-60% would go a long way towards nullifying Ferrari's advantage on the straits.

Ferrari obviously won't stop developing either. When we look at how significant their spec 3 PU performance jump relative to the prior spec was, it seems that there still is much room for improvement.
I'm curious, if Mercedes actually knows what Ferrari is doing and if yes, if they can implement it on their PU easily. Maybe they would need to change the whole PU concept. When I heard that they were changing the PU concept before the current season started, I thought that they might have implemented it already. But wasn't the case.

If this rumour is true, maybe they know what Ferrari is doing now
PG Tech from Twitter: "Mercedes fired up its 2020 engine prototype which will be their biggest performance gain since 2014"
https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 0625012736

“The or their or our, biggest performance gains since 2014”. I believe I heard that for many ‘PU upgrades fire-up’ and also as regards different makes of PU’S.

Guys thx, really for this thread and i don't want to be misunderstood but after the end of Harry Potter or GoT or any fantasie series, this thread lately that is all speculation and must be renamed to "Say the best speculation of what Ferrari is doing in their engine"
I have grabbed my pop corns and reading constantly waiting patiently the next Toto started rumor or anything
I had long time so much fun in a thread really that goes to ozon, hydrogen etc.
Next must be that leclerc and vettel eat beans the 3 days off the event and the gasses that produce goes to air filter and its known that methane is fuel.
Kudos

nzjrs wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 10:11

zibby43 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 00:12

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 58182?s=20

Translation: "Mercedes have clear ideas about where the advantage of the Ferrari SF90 PU comes from and are trying to implement it on their PU 2020. Meanwhile, the FIA has examined the cooling system of the SF90 as a preliminary point; no anomalies found."

In the interests of decoding the worthlessness of twitter 'news', this is a re-stating of what was said on the Sky broadcast on Saturday (during FP3 or Quali, IIRC), and arguably a re-posting of the racefans.net discussion of the matter in several pieces they wrote over the weekend.

Yes and yes. Don't have the transcript from the FP3 broadcast (it involved Ted Kravitz recounting his conversation with Toto Wolff), but here's the full quote from the RaceFans piece:

"I speak to an official who has knowledge of the engine’s workings.

They tell me that after the FIA inspected the system with the full co-operation of Ferrari, there were no discernible high pressure points within the system from which fluids could leak. Three distinctly different liquids are used for cooling."

https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/28/pad ... ay-four-2/

On a side note, this guy has to report news to his Italian audience, who probably weren't reading the RaceFans pieces or the Sky FP3 Interview, and nowhere did he claim the information as exclusive.

I posted it because I could corroborate what he was saying with the English sources you listed.

But, carry on.

zibby43 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 21:18

nzjrs wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 10:11

zibby43 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 00:12

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 58182?s=20

Translation: "Mercedes have clear ideas about where the advantage of the Ferrari SF90 PU comes from and are trying to implement it on their PU 2020. Meanwhile, the FIA has examined the cooling system of the SF90 as a preliminary point; no anomalies found."

In the interests of decoding the worthlessness of twitter 'news', this is a re-stating of what was said on the Sky broadcast on Saturday (during FP3 or Quali, IIRC), and arguably a re-posting of the racefans.net discussion of the matter in several pieces they wrote over the weekend.

Yes and yes. Don't have the transcript from the FP3 broadcast (it involved Ted Kravitz recounting his conversation with Toto Wolff), but here's the full quote from the RaceFans piece:

"I speak to an official who has knowledge of the engine’s workings.

They tell me that after the FIA inspected the system with the full co-operation of Ferrari, there were no discernible high pressure points within the system from which fluids could leak. Three distinctly different liquids are used for cooling."

https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/28/pad ... ay-four-2/

On a side note, this guy has to report news to his Italian audience, who probably weren't reading the RaceFans pieces or the Sky FP3 Interview, and nowhere did he claim the information as exclusive.

I posted it because I could corroborate what he was saying with the English sources you listed.

But, carry on.

regarding the 3 different liquids for cooling, I think that each engine manufacturer uses distinct liquids for the seperate components.
At least Renault does, according to the interview with Taffin(?) in the latest RET.

Is it possible that they pour something into the intercooler pre-qualifying and this then takes about 20 minutes of running to be used up?

Phil wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 16:58

Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2019, 14:09

So the PU is perfectly legal, what’s next?

It means (IMO) the teams are still in the dark and haven’t clarified the right area yet. Either that, or they haven’t filed the right protest.

You either copy them, assuming you know what they are doing, and run the risk to later be protested by the teams that don’t follow - or you make a specific inquiry into the legality of what you intend to do. If the FIA say no, it’s not allowed, you protest the team in question (like Racingpoint did with Renault).

It is obvious that the other teams are in the dark, but what stillmakes you think they are doing something illegal? The PU is deemed legal by the FIA so I believe the other PU manufacturers are just using FIA to extract as many info as they can.