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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 09:56
by Just_a_fan
strad wrote: ↑12 Apr 2019, 18:12
if they pay for your excess of energy same as they get paid,
Sounds like you want them to operate as non-profits.
There is an argument for the essentials such as water, sewerage treatment, and power to be non-profit or even state owned. Not a popular view in the US, I have no doubt!
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 10:05
by djos
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2019, 09:56
strad wrote: ↑12 Apr 2019, 18:12
if they pay for your excess of energy same as they get paid,
Sounds like you want them to operate as non-profits.
There is an argument for the essentials such as water, sewerage treatment, and power to be non-profit or even state owned. Not a popular view in the US, I have no doubt!
Power, gas and water was dramatically cheaper in Australia before privatisation.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 10:30
by Andres125sx
strad wrote: ↑12 Apr 2019, 18:12
if they pay for your excess of energy same as they get paid,
Sounds like you want them to operate as non-profits.
No, only that I want for the energy I´m producing same as they want for the energy they are producing. Is it that weird? Any reason they should have profit for their energy but we can´t?
As I said, if I want to go deeper and do it really fair from a capitalist point of view, our energy should be more expensive, as the cost per GWh of a small producer is much higher than the cost per GWh of a big producer
But I´m not asking for this, only for a net balance wich is the same as paying the same as you get paid
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 20:32
by strad
Is it that weird
Yes actually it is.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 04:10
by Greg Locock
Why should the power company pay more for power generated by photovoltaics than for the conventional power which can be dispatched when it is needed and is available 24 hours per day? Average power price for generators in Australia is 8 c /kWh, only politics and subsidies raises it higher for people like me. In effect people without solar panels (ie poor people and those who live in apartment blocks) are subsidising my solar panels.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 13:30
by AJI
On one of my grid intertie systems (admittedly the newest and best one) I get paid $0.21 per kWh for 14 hours per day, and I pay $0.21 kWh off-peak (9pm to 7am and all day on weekends).
I pay $0.34 kWh from 5 to 9.
The inverter output in that system is limited to 5kW, due (I'm told...) to 'grid infrastructure limitations', but as there are 7.92kW of panels on the roof, that 5k inverter operates at 100٪ for most of the day. It delivers ~28kWh per day on average but almost 50kWh on a good day.
That installtion is a rare case where the roof has abolutely no shade, points due north and has a perfect pitch for solar collection at my location. It's also 1100m above sea level and is in a cool climate with only a few days of snow per year.
I'm slowly switching everything over to electric, apart from the car, but I'm thinking an EV is becoming a viable option..?
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 22:14
by strad
I think that many if not most people, maybe even me, fall into line with this publisher of AutoWeek.
Lately, when editors come back from driving an EV, I ask them roughly the same thing: "So, normal car?" The answer is almost uniformly, "Yeah, normal car." Meaning, yeah, it was a normal car that most people could drive every day, or at least almost every day. Most of the EV's we drive now meet that standard.
According to Jake, the e-tron on the cover does, though because it's an Audi, it's not just "normal"- it's also very nice.
Pretty much every major automaker offers, or it about to offer, an EV of some kind, and several small companies offer, or will offer, nothing but. And pretty much every one of these cars meets my "normal car" standard.
In the very near future, you'll be able to buy a luxury EV, a ports EV or a trucky EV from a startup or the highly competent established automaker of your choosing. Of course, the big question - "Are people actually interested in buying EV's in non-niche, non-early adopter-type numbers?" - remains. Americans don't usually make car-buying decisions based on what they actually do; it's usually some combination of what they might do, what they'd like to do or what they do once or twice a year.
This new crop of EVs has the 'actually do" stuff covered. We'll see if car buyers are swayed. I have to say, the last few EVs I've driven would make excellent daily drivers, as long as I can keep my gas burners for road trips and recreation. I have a feeling most of our readers are in the same boat.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 22:36
by subcritical71
strad wrote: ↑14 Apr 2019, 22:14
I think that many if not most people, maybe even me, fall into line with this publisher of AutoWeek.
Lately, when editors come back from driving an EV, I ask them roughly the same thing: "So, normal car?" The answer is almost uniformly, "Yeah, normal car." Meaning, yeah, it was a normal car that most people could drive every day, or at least almost every day. Most of the EV's we drive now meet that standard.
According to Jake, the e-tron on the cover does, though because it's an Audi, it's not just "normal"- it's also very nice.
Pretty much every major automaker offers, or it about to offer, an EV of some kind, and several small companies offer, or will offer, nothing but. And pretty much every one of these cars meets my "normal car" standard.
In the very near future, you'll be able to buy a luxury EV, a ports EV or a trucky EV from a startup or the highly competent established automaker of your choosing. Of course, the big question - "Are people actually interested in buying EV's in non-niche, non-early adopter-type numbers?" - remains. Americans don't usually make car-buying decisions based on what they actually do; it's usually some combination of what they might do, what they'd like to do or what they do once or twice a year.
This new crop of EVs has the 'actually do" stuff covered. We'll see if car buyers are swayed. I have to say, the last few EVs I've driven would make excellent daily drivers, as long as I can keep my gas burners for road trips and recreation. I have a feeling most of our readers are in the same boat.
Well said. If I were in the market for a new car today it would be an EV. 99% of the driving I do in the car that it would replace is going back and forth to work (48 miles a day). I've taken one 1,500 mile trip in the last 10 years and that was just because I wanted to have a sporty car at my destination. I have a SUV for the weekend excursion or longer trips across country anyway.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 22:54
by Just_a_fan
95%+ of my use could be easily done by an EV. Towing a horse trailer is still a no-no for EVs as most have little, if any, tow capability (in the UK, at least). Some off road work is also desirable and, again, not well served by EVs. Some of my days are over 100 miles so a decent range is needed but EVs are available that do this and more on a single charge so that's not really an issue now.
My current intention is that my next vehicle purchase will be an EV of some form.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 22:58
by subcritical71
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑14 Apr 2019, 22:54
95%+ of my use could be easily done by an EV. Towing a horse trailer is still a no-no for EVs as most have little, if any, tow capability (in the UK, at least). Some off road work is also desirable and, again, not well served by EVs. Some of my days are over 100 miles so a decent range is needed but EVs are available that do this and more on a single charge so that's not really an issue now.
My current intention is that my next vehicle purchase will be an EV of some form.
I’ve seen reviews where a Tesla model X is towing a decent sized boat... the range is terrible, less than half of normal driving. I don’t know what the wear and tear is though vs a normal PU or SUV?
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:42
by Andres125sx
strad wrote: ↑13 Apr 2019, 20:32
Is it that weird
Yes actually it is.
Any reason?
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:02
by djos
Andres125sx wrote: ↑15 Apr 2019, 11:42
strad wrote: ↑13 Apr 2019, 20:32
Is it that weird
Yes actually it is.
Any reason?
There are electric utilities in the USA that only charge solar owners for the what they import after exports are debited, so imo it's not at all unreasonable.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 17:40
by strad
Why?
Because they are in business to show a profit.
@ Just a Fan:
The Audi E-Tron mentioned appears to handle some off road work but I don't think it's worth of Jeep type offroading.
.
Still not totally sold but if all I needed was a back and forth to work car and building a charging station wasn't so expensive I'd consider one.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 19 Apr 2019, 03:46
by roon
strad wrote: ↑15 Apr 2019, 17:40
Still not totally sold but if all I needed was a back and forth to work car and building a charging station wasn't so expensive I'd consider one.
Surely charging stations are cheaper to build than gas stations. You don't have to dig big holes in the ground. Regulatory environment is different as there are no local stores of flammable material nor fumes to deal with. Small gas pumps aren't popping up in parking lots in the way charging stations are, for obvious reasons.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 19 Apr 2019, 09:04
by henry
roon wrote: ↑19 Apr 2019, 03:46
strad wrote: ↑15 Apr 2019, 17:40
Still not totally sold but if all I needed was a back and forth to work car and building a charging station wasn't so expensive I'd consider one.
Surely charging stations are cheaper to build than gas stations. You don't have to dig big holes in the ground. Regulatory environment is different as there are no local stores of flammable material nor fumes to deal with. Small gas pumps aren't popping up in parking lots in the way charging stations are, for obvious reasons.
Charging stations are likely very much cheaper than fuel stations. But as the number of charging points increases the supply infrastructure will get more expensive. Running extra fuel trucks is a likely a lot cheaper than extra supply cables, substations etc.