Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
Just_a_fan
441
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Just_a_fan » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:56 am

strad wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:12 pm
if they pay for your excess of energy same as they get paid,
Sounds like you want them to operate as non-profits.
There is an argument for the essentials such as water, sewerage treatment, and power to be non-profit or even state owned. Not a popular view in the US, I have no doubt!
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

djos
113
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by djos » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:05 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:56 am
strad wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:12 pm
if they pay for your excess of energy same as they get paid,
Sounds like you want them to operate as non-profits.
There is an argument for the essentials such as water, sewerage treatment, and power to be non-profit or even state owned. Not a popular view in the US, I have no doubt!
Power, gas and water was dramatically cheaper in Australia before privatisation.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Andres125sx
301
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Andres125sx » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:30 am

strad wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:12 pm
if they pay for your excess of energy same as they get paid,
Sounds like you want them to operate as non-profits.
No, only that I want for the energy I´m producing same as they want for the energy they are producing. Is it that weird? Any reason they should have profit for their energy but we can´t?

As I said, if I want to go deeper and do it really fair from a capitalist point of view, our energy should be more expensive, as the cost per GWh of a small producer is much higher than the cost per GWh of a big producer

But I´m not asking for this, only for a net balance wich is the same as paying the same as you get paid

strad
256
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by strad » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:32 pm

Is it that weird
Yes actually it is. :wink:
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Greg Locock
164
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Greg Locock » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:10 am

Why should the power company pay more for power generated by photovoltaics than for the conventional power which can be dispatched when it is needed and is available 24 hours per day? Average power price for generators in Australia is 8 c /kWh, only politics and subsidies raises it higher for people like me. In effect people without solar panels (ie poor people and those who live in apartment blocks) are subsidising my solar panels.

AJI
34
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:08 am

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by AJI » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:30 pm

On one of my grid intertie systems (admittedly the newest and best one) I get paid $0.21 per kWh for 14 hours per day, and I pay $0.21 kWh off-peak (9pm to 7am and all day on weekends).
I pay $0.34 kWh from 5 to 9.
The inverter output in that system is limited to 5kW, due (I'm told...) to 'grid infrastructure limitations', but as there are 7.92kW of panels on the roof, that 5k inverter operates at 100٪ for most of the day. It delivers ~28kWh per day on average but almost 50kWh on a good day.
That installtion is a rare case where the roof has abolutely no shade, points due north and has a perfect pitch for solar collection at my location. It's also 1100m above sea level and is in a cool climate with only a few days of snow per year.
I'm slowly switching everything over to electric, apart from the car, but I'm thinking an EV is becoming a viable option..?

strad
256
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by strad » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:14 pm

I think that many if not most people, maybe even me, fall into line with this publisher of AutoWeek.
Lately, when editors come back from driving an EV, I ask them roughly the same thing: "So, normal car?" The answer is almost uniformly, "Yeah, normal car." Meaning, yeah, it was a normal car that most people could drive every day, or at least almost every day. Most of the EV's we drive now meet that standard.
According to Jake, the e-tron on the cover does, though because it's an Audi, it's not just "normal"- it's also very nice.
Pretty much every major automaker offers, or it about to offer, an EV of some kind, and several small companies offer, or will offer, nothing but. And pretty much every one of these cars meets my "normal car" standard.
In the very near future, you'll be able to buy a luxury EV, a ports EV or a trucky EV from a startup or the highly competent established automaker of your choosing. Of course, the big question - "Are people actually interested in buying EV's in non-niche, non-early adopter-type numbers?" - remains. Americans don't usually make car-buying decisions based on what they actually do; it's usually some combination of what they might do, what they'd like to do or what they do once or twice a year.
This new crop of EVs has the 'actually do" stuff covered. We'll see if car buyers are swayed. I have to say, the last few EVs I've driven would make excellent daily drivers, as long as I can keep my gas burners for road trips and recreation. I have a feeling most of our readers are in the same boat.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

subcritical71
66
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Virginia

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by subcritical71 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:36 pm

strad wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:14 pm
I think that many if not most people, maybe even me, fall into line with this publisher of AutoWeek.
Lately, when editors come back from driving an EV, I ask them roughly the same thing: "So, normal car?" The answer is almost uniformly, "Yeah, normal car." Meaning, yeah, it was a normal car that most people could drive every day, or at least almost every day. Most of the EV's we drive now meet that standard.
According to Jake, the e-tron on the cover does, though because it's an Audi, it's not just "normal"- it's also very nice.
Pretty much every major automaker offers, or it about to offer, an EV of some kind, and several small companies offer, or will offer, nothing but. And pretty much every one of these cars meets my "normal car" standard.
In the very near future, you'll be able to buy a luxury EV, a ports EV or a trucky EV from a startup or the highly competent established automaker of your choosing. Of course, the big question - "Are people actually interested in buying EV's in non-niche, non-early adopter-type numbers?" - remains. Americans don't usually make car-buying decisions based on what they actually do; it's usually some combination of what they might do, what they'd like to do or what they do once or twice a year.
This new crop of EVs has the 'actually do" stuff covered. We'll see if car buyers are swayed. I have to say, the last few EVs I've driven would make excellent daily drivers, as long as I can keep my gas burners for road trips and recreation. I have a feeling most of our readers are in the same boat.
Well said. If I were in the market for a new car today it would be an EV. 99% of the driving I do in the car that it would replace is going back and forth to work (48 miles a day). I've taken one 1,500 mile trip in the last 10 years and that was just because I wanted to have a sporty car at my destination. I have a SUV for the weekend excursion or longer trips across country anyway.

Just_a_fan
441
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Just_a_fan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:54 pm

95%+ of my use could be easily done by an EV. Towing a horse trailer is still a no-no for EVs as most have little, if any, tow capability (in the UK, at least). Some off road work is also desirable and, again, not well served by EVs. Some of my days are over 100 miles so a decent range is needed but EVs are available that do this and more on a single charge so that's not really an issue now.

My current intention is that my next vehicle purchase will be an EV of some form.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

subcritical71
66
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Virginia

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by subcritical71 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:58 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:54 pm
95%+ of my use could be easily done by an EV. Towing a horse trailer is still a no-no for EVs as most have little, if any, tow capability (in the UK, at least). Some off road work is also desirable and, again, not well served by EVs. Some of my days are over 100 miles so a decent range is needed but EVs are available that do this and more on a single charge so that's not really an issue now.

My current intention is that my next vehicle purchase will be an EV of some form.
I’ve seen reviews where a Tesla model X is towing a decent sized boat... the range is terrible, less than half of normal driving. I don’t know what the wear and tear is though vs a normal PU or SUV?

Andres125sx
301
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Andres125sx » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:42 am

strad wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:32 pm
Is it that weird
Yes actually it is. :wink:
Any reason?

djos
113
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by djos » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:02 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:42 am
strad wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:32 pm
Is it that weird
Yes actually it is. :wink:
Any reason?
There are electric utilities in the USA that only charge solar owners for the what they import after exports are debited, so imo it's not at all unreasonable.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

strad
256
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by strad » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:40 pm

Why?
Because they are in business to show a profit.
@ Just a Fan:
The Audi E-Tron mentioned appears to handle some off road work but I don't think it's worth of Jeep type offroading.
.
Still not totally sold but if all I needed was a back and forth to work car and building a charging station wasn't so expensive I'd consider one.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

roon
413
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by roon » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:46 am

strad wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:40 pm
Still not totally sold but if all I needed was a back and forth to work car and building a charging station wasn't so expensive I'd consider one.
Surely charging stations are cheaper to build than gas stations. You don't have to dig big holes in the ground. Regulatory environment is different as there are no local stores of flammable material nor fumes to deal with. Small gas pumps aren't popping up in parking lots in the way charging stations are, for obvious reasons.

henry
203
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by henry » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:04 am

roon wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:46 am
strad wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:40 pm
Still not totally sold but if all I needed was a back and forth to work car and building a charging station wasn't so expensive I'd consider one.
Surely charging stations are cheaper to build than gas stations. You don't have to dig big holes in the ground. Regulatory environment is different as there are no local stores of flammable material nor fumes to deal with. Small gas pumps aren't popping up in parking lots in the way charging stations are, for obvious reasons.
Charging stations are likely very much cheaper than fuel stations. But as the number of charging points increases the supply infrastructure will get more expensive. Running extra fuel trucks is a likely a lot cheaper than extra supply cables, substations etc.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus