Page 37 of 431
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2017, 15:23
by shady
I know youre right, when did we get information on the RA168-E it wasnt until recently, and it turns out its pretty classic in terms of most of its internal layout, some lighter and stronger materials, and special fuel. It will not be until these engines are retired that we will get a better picture. Right now for me, between HPP and Ferarri I want to see what their piston crowns look like..
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 13 Apr 2017, 16:19
by PlatinumZealot
shady wrote: ↑13 Apr 2017, 15:23
I know youre right, when did we get information on the RA168-E it wasnt until recently, and it turns out its pretty classic in terms of most of its internal layout, some lighter and stronger materials, and special fuel. It will not be until these engines are retired that we will get a better picture. Right now for me, between HPP and Ferarri I want to see what their piston crowns look like..
Elephant heads are engraved on the Mercedes pistons. I am not sure about Ferrari, maybe two stallions.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 00:13
by 63l8qrrfy6
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑12 Apr 2017, 01:59
I thought steel pistons were only used in big diesel engines? If I am not mistaken, the publicly released media out there still say that steel pistons have oiling problems and need huge oil sprays to keep the ring landings cool, and that these oil spray are just to big and heavy for small engines. As far as I am aware the solution is not publicly out there... so whoever sees one in a car or motorcycle engine be sure to post the info.
The reason steel pistons work in big industrial engines is because they are large enough to acommodate internal oil galleries which can come very close to the ring lands. Even so they are still a nightmare to manufacture as they have to be either friction welded or forged with a wide flange at the top which is then bent 90 degrees down sealing off the gallery and effectively becoming the ring carrier.
What ferrari must have achieved with laser metal sintering is a complex oil path that does not compromise piston strength. None of that honeycomb nonsense Im afraid, that would be a disaster for heat transfer. And as far as 'sporty' pistons go they are all drenched in oil by multiple nozzles so I don't think that would need a major re work.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 02:40
by PlatinumZealot
The only saving grace for F1 steel pistons is the small stroke. Meaning the piston does not travel far up the cylinder so maybe the piston skirt can be used like a pressurised oil gallery and cooling loop. The oil is pumped in at one side through a small bore and exits at the bottom of the skirt? Just an idea. I am no tribologist!
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 07:53
by 63l8qrrfy6
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑14 Apr 2017, 02:40
The only saving grace for F1 steel pistons is the small stroke. Meaning the piston does not travel far up the cylinder so maybe the piston skirt can be used like a pressurised oil gallery and cooling loop. The oil is pumped in at one side through a small bore and exits at the bottom of the skirt? Just an idea. I am no tribologist!
It is typically pumped (more like sprayed at) in a bore in the under crown and it runs circumferentially, as close as possible to the ring lands. It then exits through a similar hole. I don t think any of it makes its way to the skirt, mainly due to oil consumption considerations but there would be nothing stopping you
from directing oil to the sides if you don t care about that.
Most of the development focus is on optimizing the gallery shape (maximizing the volume and surface area) as only a small percentage of gallery gets filled with oil - something like 30 % off the top of my head.
Mahle have sodium filled development pistons that they show at fairs - these have similar galleries but they are completely sealed and use the sodium rather then oil for moving heat away from crown and grooves.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 14:48
by ScrewCaptain27
And here we finally have a full shot of the 2017 power unit:
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 15:57
by PlatinumZealot
Mudflap wrote: ↑14 Apr 2017, 07:53
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑14 Apr 2017, 02:40
The only saving grace for F1 steel pistons is the small stroke. Meaning the piston does not travel far up the cylinder so maybe the piston skirt can be used like a pressurised oil gallery and cooling loop. The oil is pumped in at one side through a small bore and exits at the bottom of the skirt? Just an idea. I am no tribologist!
It is typically pumped (more like sprayed at) in a bore in the under crown and it runs circumferentially, as close as possible to the ring lands. It then exits through a similar hole. I don t think any of it makes its way to the skirt, mainly due to oil consumption considerations but there would be nothing stopping you
from directing oil to the sides if you don t care about that.
Most of the development focus is on optimizing the gallery shape (maximizing the volume and surface area) as only a small percentage of gallery gets filled with oil - something like 30 % off the top of my head.
Mahle have sodium filled development pistons that they show at fairs - these have similar galleries but they are completely sealed and use the sodium rather then oil for moving heat away from crown and grooves.
I know all that already. But what i describe is my version of a hypothetical steel F1 piston. Only an idea.
As far as public knows F1 pistons are aluminum alloy.
If you go through mahle piston catalogue the steel pistons are for large diesel engines. I dont see any belonging to small petrol engines.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 16:01
by PlatinumZealot
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 17:20
by Selvariabell
Is the Turbo and MGU-H configuration same as last year?
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 17:47
by PlatinumZealot
We cannot tell yet the arrangement of the mguh till we get more photos.
But i can see that wideair intake pipe stretching and wrapping around to the back of the engine so we know the turbocharger is at the back.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 18 Apr 2017, 15:10
by ScrewCaptain27
Two more shots courtesy of Racecar Engineering:
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 18 Apr 2017, 21:46
by 63l8qrrfy6
Lower LHS accessory kinda looks like a hydraulic pump ?
And the 2 lines going up into the vee can be hydraulic lines for the variable trumpet actuator ?
Or is it just a fuel pump ?
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 19 Apr 2017, 23:38
by PlatinumZealot
The exhaust runners seem smaller diameter and longer than the competition - well at least the insulation does.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 20 Apr 2017, 15:55
by dren
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑19 Apr 2017, 23:38
The exhaust runners seem smaller diameter and longer than the competition - well at least the insulation does.
Yeah, they seem to run forward and then bend towards the rear. Very tight, but longer.
Re: Ferrari Power Unit
Posted: 20 Apr 2017, 15:56
by dren
Mudflap wrote: ↑18 Apr 2017, 21:46
Lower LHS accessory kinda looks like a hydraulic pump ?
And the 2 lines going up into the vee can be hydraulic lines for the variable trumpet actuator ?
Or is it just a fuel pump ?
Are the fuel pumps electric or mechanically driven at these high pressures?