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I'm almost 100% that biologically derived fuel for use in petrol engines will be alcohol.
the only other thing I've heard of is some algae synthetic petrol. But I don't think that is what is being used yet. That's still in the testing phase when last we heard from Ross Brawn.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2022, 17:12

I'm almost 100% that biologically derived fuel for use in petrol engines will be alcohol.
the only other thing I've heard of is some algae synthetic petrol. But I don't think that is what is being used yet. That's still in the testing phase when last we heard from Ross Brawn.

Biobutanol is very close to gasoline. It's quite expensive and energy intensive to make. Nuclear power plants can make it as a byproduct with raw materials.

godlameroso wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 22:06

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2022, 17:12

I'm almost 100% that biologically derived fuel for use in petrol engines will be alcohol.
the only other thing I've heard of is some algae synthetic petrol. But I don't think that is what is being used yet. That's still in the testing phase when last we heard from Ross Brawn.

Biobutanol is very close to gasoline. It's quite expensive and energy intensive to make. Nuclear power plants can make it as a byproduct with raw materials.

Ok it is an alcohol though. The name gives it away.

I have some confirmation on what constitutes the E10 in F1, and it is indeed the E10 we know.

2022 will already see Formula 1 move to E10 fuel, a mixture of 90% fossil fuel and 10% ethanol.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... J8okc.html

Until the Abu Dhabi 2021 race, the Formula 1 cars used an E5 blend, with 5% ethanol and 95% fossil fuels.

we know that Honda used (bio) butanol
they showed such running to that Japanese magazine (and onto this site) 5 years ago

and that butanol has a much higher heating value than ethanol

Ok. Adjusting for Butanol E5 for previous years...

The estimated drop is between 19.9 horsepower as shown below.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

19 Feb 2022, 00:33

Butanol LHV = 34.4 MJ/Kg
Ethanol LHV = 29.7 MJ/Kg
Gasoline LHV = 46.4 MJ/Kg

Let the relative LHV of gasoline be 1 and butanol be 34.4/46.4 = 0.74

Let the relative LHV of gasoline be 1 and ethanol be 29.7/46.4 = 0.64

2021 E5 fuel (butanol) relative LHV = 95% x 1 + 5% x 0.74 = 98.7%

2022 E10 fuel (ethanol) relative LHV = 90% x 1 + 10% x 0.64 = 96.4%

Relative expected drop in power compared to last year assuming non detonation limited =
(96.4% - 98.7%)/98.7% = -2.33%

So all esle being the same the new E10 fuel should be 2.33% weaker than last year's E5 fuel.

Since the ICE are about 850 hp this loss is about 19.9 horsepower. All esle being the same.

Could they do E85 without reintroducing refueling?

Should. But the fuel mileage will go to the dogs. They will need bigger fuel tanks.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 03:33

Should. But the fuel mileage will go to the dogs. They will need bigger fuel tanks.

And new fuel flow regs, injectors, etc. That would be a lot of extra weight in fuel unless they want the cars to slow substantially.

Not involved in this topic, but is it correct that Ferrari PU is only one whit non split turbo design, and is now most powerful?

GoranF1 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 21:42

Not involved in this topic, but is it correct that Ferrari PU is only one whit non split turbo design, and is now most powerful?

It’s true that it’s the only non-split-turbo design and a rumor/paddock talk (Toto) that it’s most powerful.

#AMuS reports that from their sources at Ferrari, the new PU is a bigger step than what we have seen in 2020/2021. They completely focused on getting more power (since the technology got frozen on 28.02.)
Ferrari will bring an improved version of the hybrid system in the summer.

Helmut Marko told RTL that he believes it is going to be a fight between Mercedes, Red Bull & Ferrari. Red Bull is overall satisfied with the first test week. He also said that it seems that Ferrari is the leading force in terms of engine (though we don‘t know engine mapping yet)

via tami. on Twitter.

LM10 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 22:08

GoranF1 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 21:42

Not involved in this topic, but is it correct that Ferrari PU is only one whit non split turbo design, and is now most powerful?

It’s true that it’s the only non-split-turbo design and a rumor/paddock talk (Toto) that it’s most powerful.

I think all engines had a split turbo design.
A split turbo design offered all advantages for the engine.
I cant think in a most powerfull engine without split-turbo design

Performance wise there shouldn't be any major difference between Split or non split.Otherwise all of them would run split version. With split version you can have better package towards the back eventually. But yeah... Maybe you should go to Ferrari and tell them that.

LM10 wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2022, 18:37

#AMuS reports that from their sources at Ferrari, the new PU is a bigger step than what we have seen in 2020/2021. They completely focused on getting more power (since the technology got frozen on 28.02.)
Ferrari will bring an improved version of the hybrid system in the summer.

Helmut Marko told RTL that he believes it is going to be a fight between Mercedes, Red Bull & Ferrari. Red Bull is overall satisfied with the first test week. He also said that it seems that Ferrari is the leading force in terms of engine (though we don‘t know engine mapping yet)

via tami. on Twitter.

Wouldn't be surprising if Ferrari is at or near the top this year. I think they were pretty close to Honda at the end of last season and they made it clear the 2021 engine was just an interim improvement vs the all-new 2022 PU.

Still interested hearing about the "innovations" Binotto has been talking about.

They [media] are talking about even more % of composites in Pu architecture.

But what and where can u put it really?

Nowadays they re using it for almost all "charge air" ducting, plenums etc. Also for all sort of tubing and shrouding around it.

Unless if we talk about metallic composites. Like from sintering or even 3D printers, but this theme was beaten to death here already. Using those in some main cooling jackets makes sense, maybe. IDK where else they can made more advancements. And for what gain? Vehicle Polar inertia maybe. CofG, mass is ruleset limited. Maybe if u can improve thermic or volumetric efficacy maybe is worth advancements. Otherwise i see those rumours as intentional distraction from real tech.

Improving thermal energy flow diagram CC -> MGUH <->MGUK mainly, nothing fancy really. Just hard iterative work.