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Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 30 May 2026, 14:30
by De Wet
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 30 May 2026, 20:32
by gearboxtrouble
I mean they're rushing out new V8 powered RS models and a turbo V8 powered R8 based on the Temerario is in the works. VAG is spending EUR50b on new ICE development. Some of that is going to end up funding some pretty exciting power plants.
As much as I love V10s (I currently own a car with one) I think they're needlessly complex and expensive to develop when a V8 would give you 90% of the same experience. If the primary goal of the 2030 regs is to make the engines simpler, lighter and cheaper then its better to stick to some sort of flat plane V8.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 01 Jun 2026, 21:28
by mzso
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑30 May 2026, 20:32
If the primary goal of the 2030 regs is to make the engines simpler, lighter and cheaper then its better to stick to some sort of flat plane V8.
I'm not sure if the V8's help with any of these points. Going to V8 is counterintuitive, it will just make the ICE heavier. Plus 2 cylinders also adds complexity. Cheaper? I'm doubtful, I think everyone will use up the cost cap.
Furthermore there was no talk of dropping turbocharging, which might decrease complexity a bit, but increase size and weight and fuel for sure.
It would also be surprising if they removed hybridization completely, which also wasn't mentioned.
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑30 May 2026, 20:32
As much as I love V10s (I currently own a car with one) I
Really? What model?
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 02 Jun 2026, 00:55
by gearboxtrouble
mzso wrote: ↑01 Jun 2026, 21:28
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑30 May 2026, 20:32
If the primary goal of the 2030 regs is to make the engines simpler, lighter and cheaper then its better to stick to some sort of flat plane V8.
I'm not sure if the V8's help with any of these points. Going to V8 is counterintuitive, it will just make the ICE heavier. Plus 2 cylinders also adds complexity. Cheaper? I'm doubtful, I think everyone will use up the cost cap.
Furthermore there was no talk of dropping turbocharging, which might decrease complexity a bit, but increase size and weight and fuel for sure.
It would also be surprising if they removed hybridization completely, which also wasn't mentioned.
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑30 May 2026, 20:32
As much as I love V10s (I currently own a car with one) I
Really? What model?
I meant simpler, lighter and cheaper than a V10. It also helps that every manufacturer other than Honda builds road car V8s as well. I own a 2017 Viper SRT - I know I am a barbarian but its a lot of fun.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 02 Jun 2026, 12:29
by mzso
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑02 Jun 2026, 00:55
mzso wrote: ↑01 Jun 2026, 21:28
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑30 May 2026, 20:32
If the primary goal of the 2030 regs is to make the engines simpler, lighter and cheaper then its better to stick to some sort of flat plane V8.
I'm not sure if the V8's help with any of these points. Going to V8 is counterintuitive, it will just make the ICE heavier. Plus 2 cylinders also adds complexity. Cheaper? I'm doubtful, I think everyone will use up the cost cap.
Furthermore there was no talk of dropping turbocharging, which might decrease complexity a bit, but increase size and weight and fuel for sure.
It would also be surprising if they removed hybridization completely, which also wasn't mentioned.
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑30 May 2026, 20:32
As much as I love V10s (I currently own a car with one) I
Really? What model?
I meant simpler, lighter and cheaper than a V10. It also helps that every manufacturer other than Honda builds road car V8s as well. I own a 2017 Viper SRT - I know I am a barbarian but its a lot of fun.
Yeah, but it goes in the exact opposite direction in this regard.
Hm, the on-board sound of the car reminds of the Audi Quattro Group B car mostly. That had half the cylinders.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 10:01
by DenBommer
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 11:04
by mzso
I'm starting to get a feeling of a populist leader/dictator, who says whatever people want to hear. Meanwhile nothing ever becomes of it, and everything is ruined in the background. I hope I'll be positively disappointed.
I still se no suggestion what sort of "V8" is he thinking of. Small displacement turbo or a large NA. What he says seems contradictory. He both says going down to 630kg with smaller cars, but also the "sound". I don't think 3l V8 would help going down, and smaller turbo's wont have the "sound".
Also the "760 horsepower with 10% in it of electrification" wouldn't go down well with many/majority f1 fans, who get off on seeing higher numbers and 760 is a ~quarter less then than 1000. (assuming this broken grammar means 760 total with 76hp of it electric power)
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 11:14
by FW17
mzso wrote: ↑12 Jun 2026, 11:04
I'm starting to get a feeling of a populist leader/dictator, who says whatever people want to hear. Meanwhile nothing ever becomes of it, and everything is ruined in the background. I hope I'll be positively disappointed.
Dictator wanted more money - got it
Dictator wanted 11th ream - got it
Dictator wants professional race steward - will have to wait
Dictator wants NA V8 - will have to wait
He has only tripped on Wolff, but like Max had his day, it will come.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 11:21
by FW17
I wish the rules stated that the engine is to be completely designed and manufactured by AI and robots with no human hands touching it.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 12:29
by DenBommer
I still prefer Toto Wolff’s concept: 800 hp from the ICE and 400 hp from the electric motor.
A simpler turbocharged V8 ICE would allow manufacturers to focus more on developing advanced battery technology and electric motors.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 13:06
by De Wet
DenBommer wrote: ↑12 Jun 2026, 12:29
I still prefer Toto Wolff’s concept: 800 hp from the ICE and 400 hp from the electric motor.
A simpler turbocharged V8 ICE would allow manufacturers to focus more on developing advanced battery technology and electric motors.
I'd like 950hp+ from ICE & 100hp from battery.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 13:28
by FW17
De Wet wrote: ↑12 Jun 2026, 13:06
DenBommer wrote: ↑12 Jun 2026, 12:29
I still prefer Toto Wolff’s concept: 800 hp from the ICE and 400 hp from the electric motor.
A simpler turbocharged V8 ICE would allow manufacturers to focus more on developing advanced battery technology and electric motors.
I'd like 950hp+ from ICE & 100hp from battery.
Hybrids are so pointless, it is BEV and EREV on the roads.
V8 with no hybrid is way for F1, as VW Executive said the ICE car is like a horse, the segment F1 should appeal to (ie people with horses).
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 15:35
by ScottB
A V6 or V8 turbo, with some hybrid element, would retain road relevance / link to the high end cars Ferrari, Audi, Merc, Mclaren etc will be trying to sell people, so makes perfect sense to me. An arbitrary power ratio doesn't, as ultimately the wider audience just doesn't know it, or need to know it.
A return to a V10, an engine configuration that I don't think anyone even sells now (Lambo switched to a V8 for the Temarario), and an engine F1 itself won't have used for nearly 30 years by the time the rules change, feels much less so, and I'm not sure the wider audience would even really perceive a difference. Also not sure of any real advantage over a V6, in terms of say, power output, weighed against the increased size / complexity?
My guess is we end up with a V6 / V8 turbo with some sort of hybrid element to keep the turbo spinning and provide some sort of boost mode / power supplement.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 12 Jun 2026, 17:02
by gearboxtrouble
It should be as simple as possible. There should be no attempt to push the technological frontier and the needs of the sport should be prioritized over trying to build consensus among the manufacturers. Ferrari, RBPT and GM will be in no matter what and given the massive U turns in the same direction at Mercedes and Audi, they likely will be too. A turbo V8 of ~800hp with a tiny 0.5MJ solid state battery driving a 50hp electric motor purely for overtake mode and qualifying would be simple, light weight and cheap. Lag wouldn't really be an issue because the engine would always be on boost and you'd save so much weight you could run smaller, cheaper, lighter cars that have superior power/weight vs the current cars.
Re: Concept power units from 2030
Posted: 14 Jun 2026, 11:17
by bananapeel23
gearboxtrouble wrote: ↑12 Jun 2026, 17:02
It should be as simple as possible. There should be no attempt to push the technological frontier and the needs of the sport should be prioritized over trying to build consensus among the manufacturers. Ferrari, RBPT and GM will be in no matter what and given the massive U turns in the same direction at Mercedes and Audi, they likely will be too. A turbo V8 of ~800hp with a tiny 0.5MJ solid state battery driving a 50hp electric motor purely for overtake mode and qualifying would be simple, light weight and cheap. Lag wouldn't really be an issue because the engine would always be on boost and you'd save so much weight you could run smaller, cheaper, lighter cars that have superior power/weight vs the current cars.
50 horsepower is not nearly enough for a good overtaking aid. You need to at least triple that for it to work without the use of DRS.
I dont get the obsession with going back to the terrible racing of the early 2000s, where you could even stay ahead of the car behind when down a whole cylinder (~100 horsepower). 50 horsepower is not enough for an effective overtaking aid.