Young Drivers Test: Abu Dhabi - 15th to 17th Nov 2011

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:50 pm

Giblet wrote:Now to confuse me more, the two threads you posted are the Mclaren thread for the current car, and the 2011 testing thread. Nether have a pic of this rig that I can find on a Red Bull.

Do you have a link to a pic of the Red Bull prior to this test with that rig attached?

The posts I referred to both say RB used that the previous year, but unfortunately the pic links are now dead.


edit - found evidence! I remember it being discussed at the time, so I'm surprised it took me so long to find.

Dated 2 & 4 Dec 2009



It was used at the young driver session at Jerez on 1 Dec ... 5/#/143405

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:00 pm

While we're on the topic of testing equipment Ferari have their huge pitot array this year. It looks abit agricultural compared to the McLaren movable rake in 2010, but the array will capture more data simultaneously.

This is what McLaren had at Jerez in Feb 2010


Last edited by Richard on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:01 pm

Thanks Richard, much obliged.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:36 pm

Scarbs has done a thread about the RB test rig (thanks JET for highlighting that) ... aero-rake/

I disagree with scarbs about the strain gauge. The cable is very thick so a strain gauge at the nose would give an accurate representation of the load. Yes a thin cable would have more stretch along its length but it would be an easy calc to compensate for that.

Drag would also induce a force in the cable but again an easy calc to compensate for that.

However if the purpose is to see the relative variation in forces on the wing at different heights, then they would only be interested relative values, not absolute force, ie this position generates 10% more downforce than the baseline wing.

They need to know the forces to know how to build the wing to flex to the desired ride height.

I agree with scarbs that the wing is probably extra floppy so they can dial in various deflections by adjusting the tension in the cable.

Finally, the McLaren set up is much bulkier and I can believe it might have active adjustment under that hood. The RB seems too slimline, they'd need rockers linked to a mechanism inside the nose. Or perhaps a ram to move the anchorages up and down. Or a manual adjustement?

Here's a comparison:

McLaren from Barcelona Feb 2011


Red Bull Abu Dhabi Nov 2011

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:41 am

I hadn't realized before, but Williams have live timing from the young guns' test:
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 am

Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:36 pm

"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna
Joined: 28 Jul 2011

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:27 pm

Joined: 4 Mar 2009

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:29 pm

Driver Test distances:

Jean-Eric Vergne 949.734 RB7
Garry Paffett 516.522 MP4/26
Oliver Turvey 688.696 MP4/26
Jules Bianchi 1,566.228 150°
Sam Bird 1,388.500 MGP W02
Robert Wickens 427.658 R31
Kevin Korjus 449.874 R31
Jan Charouz 455.428 R31
Valtteri Bottas 772.006 FW33
Mirko Bortolotti 410.996 FW33
Max Chilton 883.086 VJM/04
Johnny Cecotto Jr 466.536 VJM/04
Esteban Gutierrez 960.842 C30
Fabio Leimer 372.118 C30
Stefano Coletti 749.790 STR6
Kevin Ceccon 733.128 STR6
Alexander Rossi 410.996 T128
Luiz Razia 494.306 T128
Rodolfo Gonzalez 483.198 T128
Dani Clos 377.672 F111
Nathanael Berthon 333.240 F111
Jan Charouz 311.024 F111
Robert Wickens 188.836 MVR/02
Adrian Quaife-Hobbs 177.728 MVR/02
Charles Pic 777.560 MVR/02

Team Test Distances:

Red Bull-Renault 949.734 RB7
McLaren-Mercedes 1,205.218 MP4/26
Scuderia Ferrari 1,566.228 150°
Mercedes GP 1,388.500 MGP W02
Lotus Renault GP 1,332.960 R31
Williams-Cowsorth 1,183.002 FW33
Force India-Mercedes 1,349.622 VJM/04
Sauber-Ferarri 1,332.960 C30
STR-Ferarri 1,482.918 STR6
Team Lotus-Renault 1,388.500 T128
Hispania-Cosworth 1,021.936 F111
Marussia Virgin-Cosworth 1,144.124 MVR/02

Engine Test Distances:

Renault RS27-2011 3,671.194
Mercedes FO108Y 3,943.340
Ferrari 056 4,382.106
Cosworth CA2011 3,349.062

Gearbox Test Distance:

Red Bull Technology 3,821.152
McLaren Applied Technologies 2,554.840
Ferarri 2,899.188
Mercedes 1,388.500
Renault GP 1,332.960
Williams Grand Prix Engineering 2,204.938
Xtrac 1,144.124
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:56 pm

That looks like a dyno wheel on the lotus, or renault, or benetton or whatever its called now.

Not the engineer at Force India
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:25 pm

Intresting fact, the engine that Mirko Bortolotti used today was used by Pastor Maldanado used this year, and has already completed arround 2500km. CA325 completed Friday at Germany, Singapore & Japan. Also Rubens has also had that same engine in his rotation as well, with it taking part in the race in Korea and Friday at Japan. This engine has now had 2 re bus this year id recon.

Shows how versitile those engines can be, and how strong they are.
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:43 pm

It's a bit ironic that they had to use 9th engine for Maldonaldo. Sure they didn't espect this engine to run so long. It suggests that this was rather an exceptional good engine, and not all engines could do the same.
Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Location: Ada,Serbia

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:13 pm

Its proably served its purpose with Maldanado, gottn a re build and then put int service with Rubens, then served its cource pretty quickly with him, then discontinued from service, and probably has had some life left in it that Cosworth wanted to use for testing and has been used for this.

What we dont know is if it was used last year for another team like Lotus, HRT or Virgin.
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:32 pm

The engine manufacturers are dyeing to get different race engines of varying life to pull apart and check. Problem is that they are sealed by the FIA as long as the engine is still allocated for use. Everyone wants fresh engines, and of course has to follow the rules. By the time a team or engine manufacturer can check the engine they are at the end of their life or detonated.

The only way to check race engine wear/degradation during the season is to analyze the oil and its contents. They learn much, but not what they could if they could rebuild engines between track days like they used to.

Its frustrating to the engine guys, but these tests the seals are gone, and anything goes. Everyone wants to get so much data from so few KM. They can't just have an engine test day, it has to be done while they are running 10 other things in parallel.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:17 am


I read that Ferrari and Mercedes engineers can tell with a great degree of accuracy what the engine is doing just by taking oil samples.
20 years ago you could have a guess with these samples but now every molecule is checked and documented.
Certain metals being of higher content than the norm will indicate higher wear and therefore more prone to failure.

With the amount of miles these "forzen" engines have already achieved, these guys know exactly where they are with oil analysis. Right down to which one of the 20,000 components is about to fail!
More could have been done.
David Purley
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113


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