The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
SiLo
130
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

Does anyone think Red Bull will carry the advantage over to next year? This year was again simply an evolution of last year (which seems the same for Mercedes) and the large rule changes would surely necessitate a complete overhaul.

I've always thought that "evolution" cars seemed to be better than new from scratch ones, even if new ones have newer/better ideas on them. Simply because the understanding of the car is that much more. What do people think?
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 12 Oct 2010, 03:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited title to reflect topic
Felipe Baby!

Neno
-29
Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:41

Re: The Red Bull Advantage

Post

Red Bull dont have advantage next year in F1! With new rules, and 5 teams in battle for championship dont have a single chance.

tommylommykins
-1
Joined: 12 May 2009, 22:14

Re: The Red Bull Advantage

Post

hmm, wouldn't it really only depend on how much faster your new car is than all your other rivals', whether or not it's a cleansheet or an evolution?

I guess if you think that your current car has few flaws and is a good base to progress from then producing an 'evolution' car means you have to spend less time on redesigning things from scratch and can spend more time on making the car go faster.

----

As a bit of a side note, what is the true difference between an evolution car and a from-scratch car? I assume the vast majority of components in cars stays the same between different years...

It's only the aerodynamics that we can really see when things change... If a team keeps the external aerodynamics of the previous car and puts in completely new internals, how do we know? Do we think it's the same car as last year's? What if the team uses the same internals but has completely different aerodynamics? Is that a new car or an evolution car?

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: The Red Bull Advantage

Post

There's not MUCH changed next year... It's 2013 that's got the big rule changes, changing to ground effect (or was that 2012?). Besides, Adrian Newey, in my memory, has always been the designer to have in effect of a rule change
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

donskar
2
Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams
Contact:

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

SiLo wrote:Does anyone think Red Bull will carry the advantage over to next year? This year was again simply an evolution of last year (which seems the same for Mercedes) and the large rule changes would surely necessitate a complete overhaul.

I've always thought that "evolution" cars seemed to be better than new from scratch ones, even if new ones have newer/better ideas on them. Simply because the understanding of the car is that much more. What do people think?
Red Bull will maintain their advantage, unless that advantage -- Adrian Newey -- moves to another team.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

gibells
3
Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 16:23
Location: Andalucia, Spain

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

mmm. Depends. Ferrari Renault and McLaren have had a great deal of experience ironing out the KERS problems they had at the start of last year. To that end I'm not sure. I'd be very interested to see whether Red Bull goes with or without it. If they do go KERS, I should think they may be on the back foot for at least the first 3/4 races. If not, I think they'd be fast but will loose advantage when the KERS cars tune up.

donskar
2
Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams
Contact:

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

gibells wrote:mmm. Depends. Ferrari Renault and McLaren have had a great deal of experience ironing out the KERS problems they had at the start of last year. To that end I'm not sure. I'd be very interested to see whether Red Bull goes with or without it. If they do go KERS, I should think they may be on the back foot for at least the first 3/4 races. If not, I think they'd be fast but will loose advantage when the KERS cars tune up.
KERS will -- again -- pose challenges in packaging and aero. Newey is strong in both areas. As to the specific operational challenges of KERS, I don't think RBR will have any difficulty recruiting the appropriate technical/KERS personnel. (I'd love to be wrong about this.)
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

We all agree that RedBull is best car this year, but still there are drivers from 3 teams fighting for the championship.
It's not like all Newey's cars won a championship, right?
Surely RedBull has the most solid base for next year, and it would be most logical to bet on them for next year. But I think other teams are doing their best and learning from them to raise a challenge next year.

Nothing really groundbreaking I have said here, sorry :)

ESPImperium
64
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Contact:

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

The only real changes to the cars next year are:

*Double Diffuser and F-Duct being banned
* Anvil wings being banned within a 150mm radius of the chord of the rear wing (has this been confirmed?)
* The introduction of the adjustable rear wings
* Mandatory 46/54 weight distrubution
* Re-Introduction of KERS
* Pirelli P-Zero Rubber
* Car weight increased from 620KG to 640KG

The big ones are the rubber and Diffuser, but i think the RB6 and F10 are the best baselines for 2011, but the R29 is as good and now C29, FW32 and W01 are looking loke good baselines to improve the whole aero area.

The rest are looking at clean sheet designs.

marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

RedBull will use Renaults KERS? I´m not sure how much they improved their system since 2009..
the mercedes propelled car sseem to have a considerable head start with the system already available.
Now for the extra weight mandated for the complete car ...is this dictating a lot in conjunction with the mandatory weight distribution in terms of component positioning or is this extra ballast just used to lower the CoG ...

aral
26
Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

marcush. wrote:RedBull will use Renaults KERS? I´m not sure how much they improved their system since 2009..
the mercedes propelled car sseem to have a considerable head start with the system already available.
Now for the extra weight mandated for the complete car ...is this dictating a lot in conjunction with the mandatory weight distribution in terms of component positioning or is this extra ballast just used to lower the CoG ...
I understand that the new weight limit is to allow for the addition of KERS. This will no doubt, be located as low as possible. But here is a question. Does the weight balance have to be the same, both before and after a race? This could be difficult to control due to position of fuel cells. Any info?

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

Weight distribution must all be equally set before qualy 1 as I understand it.
That is when the cars are to be checked.
More could have been done.
David Purley

User avatar
Holm86
243
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

Has this mandatory weight distribution been confirmed?? Havent heard much about it.
If its true its a stupid rule.

Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

The car seems to be doing something this year that nobody can really figure out. If the next car is made of a harmonious bag of tricks that nobody can fully undersand it could also be a touch on the dominant side.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

Post

RBR has managed to produce championship winning cars for 2 consecutive years despite not being the biggest or richest team on the grid. There must be something really special about the RB5/6 design that make them so quick and adaptable to changes.

I reckon that the longer the WDC/WCC drag on, the more RBR will gain for next year.

Post Reply