What word from Manor, Campos and USGP?

[ISLAMATRON]

The KERS systems are highly regulated because that is what the top teams wanted at the time it was first proposed, those teams being mainly Ferrari and McLaren.

[modbaraban]

stuff...

You can bring up the examples of flexi wings, CVT, active suspension and ground effect or egyption pyramids. I gave you examples of F1 today.

I won't waste any more of my time arguing with you as you keep trying to read things in my posts that just aren't there. Besides that last quote was snipped at a very convenient place, wasn't it? Enough said.

[ISLAMATRON]

Your example of BGP in F1 TODAY, was refuted by me, and is false... your example is poor and without analytical depth. BGP themselves said they would consider fitting the Merc KERS system onto their car before the FOTA teams voted it out for next year.

[timbo]

There's a rumor that Virgin would be title sponsor for Manor.
Can anyone confirm it?
Who's gotta be with Brawn?

[Conceptual]

There's a rumor that Virgin would be title sponsor for Manor.
Can anyone confirm it?
Who's gotta be with Brawn?

If it wins this years championships, probably several major sponsors...

I must say that Sir Richard disappoints me. He steps in at a rediculously easy time, and has his logo on a car that he paid nothing for for 6 of the first 7 victories of this season, and now that Brawn actually want some serious money, he bails.

Sir Richard, you are a f*cking pussy!

[FGD]

There's a rumor that Virgin would be title sponsor for Manor.
Can anyone confirm it?
Who's gotta be with Brawn?

If it wins this years championships, probably several major sponsors...

I must say that Sir Richard disappoints me. He steps in at a rediculously easy time, and has his logo on a car that he paid nothing for for 6 of the first 7 victories of this season, and now that Brawn actually want some serious money, he bails.

Sir Richard, you are a f*cking pussy!

Seems like very good business to me. Think about it. While Brawn fights with Red Bull for this years championship, all the big teams will be developing their cars for next year - exactly as Honda/Brawn did last year. In light of this, the odds of Brawn repeating their 2009 success in 2010 suddenly seem pretty slim. If Brawn ends up a backmarker in 2010, why would you want to pay top dollar now for a team that will likely be mid-field next year. You may as well pay second-tier prices to advertise on a second-tier team.

[WhiteBlue]

Branson has a reputation to look for value in deals. Brawn was an opportunity he could not let pass but being a regular sponsor would not make sense to him. Expect him to look out for no brainers and drop the thing as soon as there are no opportunities for easy profit.

Further on the topic it has been revealed by Montezemolo that FOTA puts a question mark on the participation of the new teams and thinks about filling the grid with third cars by the manufacturers.

http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/06/ ... sh-f1-row/

Maybe the possibility to have some teams or all the teams to run even a third car, to have more possibility to overtake – but increasing technology research, extreme performance and overall competition.”

I does not sound like FOTA are taking their committments very serious. A point to worry.

In the same blog Allan reported that he asked about the Ferrari veto in the future:

I asked yesterday whether Ferrari still has the right of veto over rule changes and the answer is “yes”.

Does that mean that Ferrari will still have special rule making priviledges which are not equally shared with other teams?

I thought this whole thing of FOTA was about same right for all and no two tiers?

[ISLAMATRON]

obviouly the wholethin about FOTA is bullshit, they have clearly pulled the wool over he eyes of many of the fans... like I've said before, yes Max is an Ass, but Luca is no better... at least Max is an ass with a plan to improve F1

[modbaraban]

at least Max is an ass with a plan to improve F1

You have all the right to have that opinion but not to call other fans blind (like you just did). Many fans wathed Max destroying Formula1 for several years. F1 is nearly dead now. 2010 plan was to finalize the process. Luckily it didn't work out.

[timbo]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76604

and

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=38311

that Donelli's link gives another ring to the first article...

[WhiteBlue]

At the moment the rules for new teams are completely up in the air. There is no budget cap, so they can be outspend by any amount of money. The promised technical help can be made conditional to purchasing an engine/gearbox package from a FOTA manufacturer. Rules of engine "equalization" can be tweaked to push their supplier Cosworth out of F1 and FOTA has the option to tweak all the rule making against them. Even Williams have asked for legally binding conditions for them but nothing has been heard.

All I have heared was a comment that some may not be able to compete and others may get "invited". I do not even know if FOTA intends to hear them on any issues prior to the begin of the 2010 championship. They could be holding internal meetings to set their voting agenda and block vote everything through the F1 commission. It all sounds like they would prefer a bunch of B-teams which they can boss around or third cars from the rich teams.

Those may be worst case possibilities but the longer it takes to confirm what the FOTA intends to do with the new teams the more damage it will do to their finances. So a fair deal should be put together ASAP to demonstrate good intentions. The ball certainly is in the FOTA court because their proposal for 2010 rules was accepted over the FIA rules. So it is now their responsibility to make those teams as viable as they would have been under FIA rules. If they abuse the agreement to sink the new teams we know that they cannot be trusted.

[Conceptual]

I REALLY wanna hear from Sir Frank and Dr. Mallya.

They were kicked from FOTA, I wonder what concessions they will wring out of this situation...

[FGD]

At the moment the rules for new teams are completely up in the air. There is no budget cap, so they can be outspend by any amount of money. The promised technical help can be made conditional to purchasing an engine/gearbox package from a FOTA manufacturer. Rules of engine "equalization" can be tweaked to push their supplier Cosworth out of F1 and FOTA has the option to tweak all the rule making against them. Even Williams have asked for legally binding conditions for them but nothing has been heard.

All I have heared was a comment that some may not be able to compete and others may get "invited". I do not even know if FOTA intends to hear them on any issues prior to the begin of the 2010 championship. They could be holding internal meetings to set their voting agenda and block vote everything through the F1 commission. It all sounds like they would prefer a bunch of B-teams which they can boss around or third cars from the rich teams.

Those may be worst case possibilities but the longer it takes to confirm what the FOTA intends to do with the new teams the more damage it will do to their finances. So a fair deal should be put together ASAP to demonstrate good intentions. The ball certainly is in the FOTA court because their proposal for 2010 rules was accepted over the FIA rules. So it is now their responsibility to make those teams as viable as they would have been under FIA rules. If they abuse the agreement to sink the new teams we know that they cannot be trusted.

Pure speculation and a little paranoid to boot. Those evil F1 teams! Why do you even follow F1 if you think the whole thing is such a sham?

[WhiteBlue]

Pure speculation and a little paranoid to boot. Those evil F1 teams! Why do you even follow F1 if you think the whole thing is such a sham?

Since when have we agreed to outlaw speculation. A bit of it is usefull to highlight the tendencies of F1 politics and warn about negative developments. Plus, there isn't 100% speculation in my posts. I have given some solid quotes in this thread that give rise to concern. I do not think that teams are evil and F1 is a sham, that was your contribution.

One last thing. Do not speculate about the mental health of fellow users. It is rude, cheap and will not endear you to your peers here. If you feel compelled to make derogatory comments it would be better to refrain from it. Be a bit whitty and use facts to make your point. I invite you explicitly to alleviate my concerns about FOTA abusing their rule making power to manipulate the entry of the confirmed new teams. Please tell us the facts that can make those guys sleep easy and untroubled.

[FGD]

Pure speculation and a little paranoid to boot. Those evil F1 teams! Why do you even follow F1 if you think the whole thing is such a sham?

Since when have we agreed to outlaw speculation. A bit of it is usefull to highlight the tendencies of F1 politics and warn about negative developments. Plus, there isn't 100% speculation in my posts. I have given some solid quotes in this thread that give rise to concern. I do not think that teams are evil and F1 is a sham, that was your contribution.

One last thing. Do not speculate about the mental health of fellow users. It is rude, cheap and will not endear you to your peers here. If you feel compelled to make derogatory comments it would be better to refrain from it. Be a bit whitty and use facts to make your point. I invite you explicitly to alleviate my concerns about FOTA abusing their rule making power to manipulate the entry of the confirmed new teams. Please tell us the facts that can make those guys sleep easy and untroubled.

Your speculative comments suggesting FOTA teams will conspire against independent teams is baseless. After all, were it not for Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari and Toyota there would be no independent teams in F1 today. What’s more, Brawn, Red Bull and Williams are all as competitive and, as we’ve seen from Red Bull and Brawn this year, significantly more successful than their factory partners.

In light of this, what real evidence can you provide, based on known fact, that manufacturer teams in F1 will conspire to cripple their independent partners.

The kind of speculation you offer is baseless and only feeds the misconception that F1 is a sham sport. If you were offended by my use of the word paranoid, my sincerest apologies.