2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

I'm assuming what this means is that the first elements of the 24 car to be tested have gone into the tunnel.

That was my assumption as well. I’m also assuming none of the 2023 upgrades, even the last batch was done in the new wind tunnel?

On the basis that Stella said that none of the 23 car would go in the tunnel and that when the 24 car was starting testing there would be no more work on the 23 car then I'd guess so, but things can change.

I was expecting this to have happened some time back though...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10441990/

I'd imagine it has been testing in it for a little while, they just posted about it this week for some reason. But I recall another Quote from Stella before the break about the switch over happening around Zandvoort. Seems like they started testing the 24 car later than expected?

Edit: I found the article, he said they were starting development in the first week of August, which is still later than the June date that was given previously.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/230144/m ... unnel.html

[billamend]

[taperoo2k]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

Toyota appear to be on course to release a car in 2027 (unless things slip) with a solid state battery. Which should have a bigger range (some estimates put it in the 600+ mile range) and won't take as long to charge. McLaren having access to that kind of battery technology would give them an advantage over it's competitors. I can see a Toyota and McLaren hypercar project happening before anything in F1 happens. But we'll see.

McLaren simply doesn't have the funding to build it's own F1 powertrain from scratch.

[bauc]

I like how the filmed the new windtunnel using the old one, maaan you can see yellow stains and scratches from use all over

[mzivtins]

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

This is utter nonsense.

The road car division is profitable, it is going strength to strength and has doubled-down on its goal of making high end sports cars (dashing silly rumours of SUV's polluting the line)

I own a few McLaren's, and there are always people on every corner of the internet who just don't understand how a company like McLaren operates. It is NOT a shareholder driven company like Mercedes, Audi etc. If it was you would see it go the way of brands like Aston Martin and Lotus who have completely lost touch with who they are (and Chinese owned!).

McLaren GT is also doing very well, now that the F1 division is doing great this year, the McLaren brand as a whole is doing the best it ever has been, far better than the days of McLaren Mercedes.

If you look at the account press you can see all of this detailed in investments coming into the company and ones made by the company for things like wind tunnel and road car facilities.

They are not looking for partners for the hybrid engine platform, that is already done.
Ricardo engineering is their partner for building their engine, both the M8##T and the hybrid M6## platforms.

Ricardo
https://www.ricardo.com/en/news-and-ins ... owertrains

2022 results:
https://investors.mclaren.com/sites/mcl ... s-2022.pdf

[mwillems]

Battery technology is important for sports car due to power weight ratio. what car companies are trying to do is to minimise their battery pack to gain better performance. Battery is like the new engine for modern car..

New batteries are about to be released, this year or the start of next for BYD, and a couple of years for VW and Toyota, who have all managed to created Solid State batteries that are smaller and more powerful than the current gen. Other companies are also going into production on SSBs.

Precisely what will be available to whom, and how these fit into the regs I do not know.

Edit: Having written that, my slow brain just realised what we might gain from a close tie up from Toyota! I should have realised that before.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ctric-cars

Whilst production lines might not start for a few years they will be able to create a small set of high end batteries for certain partners or applications.

[mwillems]

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

This is utter nonsense.

The road car division is profitable, it is going strength to strength and has doubled-down on its goal of making high end sports cars (dashing silly rumours of SUV's polluting the line)

I own a few McLaren's, and there are always people on every corner of the internet who just don't understand how a company like McLaren operates. It is NOT a shareholder driven company like Mercedes, Audi etc. If it was you would see it go the way of brands like Aston Martin and Lotus who have completely lost touch with who they are (and Chinese owned!).

McLaren GT is also doing very well, now that the F1 division is doing great this year, the McLaren brand as a whole is doing the best it ever has been, far better than the days of McLaren Mercedes.

If you look at the account press you can see all of this detailed in investments coming into the company and ones made by the company for things like wind tunnel and road car facilities.

They are not looking for partners for the hybrid engine platform, that is already done.
Ricardo engineering is their partner for building their engine, both the M8##T and the hybrid M6## platforms.

Ricardo
https://www.ricardo.com/en/news-and-ins ... owertrains

2022 results:
https://investors.mclaren.com/sites/mcl ... s-2022.pdf

https://investors.mclaren.com/~/media/F ... report.pdf

Your link is broken, if it helps, this is the link to the one showing that there was a £120m loss in the first half of this year and the next one has a lovely £278m loss from 2022:

https://investors.mclaren.com/~/media/F ... t-2022.pdf

I would be careful about telling people they are talking "nonsense". It's just rude and pointless, and if you turn out to be wrong you kind of look like a...

[mwillems]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

Toyota appear to be on course to release a car in 2027 (unless things slip) with a solid state battery. Which should have a bigger range (some estimates put it in the 600+ mile range) and won't take as long to charge. McLaren having access to that kind of battery technology would give them an advantage over it's competitors. I can see a Toyota and McLaren hypercar project happening before anything in F1 happens. But we'll see.

McLaren simply doesn't have the funding to build it's own F1 powertrain from scratch.

Ahhh I didn't realise you'd got there already!

[djos]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

Toyota appear to be on course to release a car in 2027 (unless things slip) with a solid state battery. Which should have a bigger range (some estimates put it in the 600+ mile range) and won't take as long to charge. McLaren having access to that kind of battery technology would give them an advantage over it's competitors. I can see a Toyota and McLaren hypercar project happening before anything in F1 happens. But we'll see.

McLaren simply doesn't have the funding to build it's own F1 powertrain from scratch.

Toyota have been claiming they would release a car with a Solid State battery since 2017, it was due last year - so dont hold your breath on them releasing a useful SSB anytime soon.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-ev ... 22-report/

EDIT: beaten by theStig

[trinidefender]

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

Toyota appear to be on course to release a car in 2027 (unless things slip) with a solid state battery. Which should have a bigger range (some estimates put it in the 600+ mile range) and won't take as long to charge. McLaren having access to that kind of battery technology would give them an advantage over it's competitors. I can see a Toyota and McLaren hypercar project happening before anything in F1 happens. But we'll see.

McLaren simply doesn't have the funding to build it's own F1 powertrain from scratch.

(unless things slip)

I would take Toyota and anything they say about EVs with a huge pinch of salt. They are miles behind in that area and here are some historic headlines about their impending solid state breakthrough.....

2023: "Toyota to roll out solid-state-battery EVs as soon as 2027"

2020: "Toyota's Quick-Charging Solid-State Battery Coming in 2025"

2017: "Toyota’s new solid-state battery could make its way to cars by 2020"

2014: "Toyota to Offer High Performance Solid-State Batteries in 2020"

Um. You might want to revise your statement about being miles behind. They hold far more battery patents than any other company.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/toyota- ... y-patents/

"Toyota is the leader, with 1,331 known patents. Panasonic took second place with 445"

They have more than 3 times the number of patents related to solid state batteries than anyone else so it would be a fair statement to make that they will be the first to get over that yardstick.

As far as hybrid technology goes they started it from a consumer point of view and have pretty much led the field since then doing more with smaller batteries.

If you need an example just look at something like the Toyota Yaris Cross. The sort of real world fuel mileage it gets (talking from personal experience as well as I regularly drive one) is impressive especially when you consider how small and low capacity the battery is. Their charging and deployment systems to maximise fuel economy is probably ahead of any of the other companies.

Personally I'd be happy to see Toyota form a partnership of some kind with McLaren, hopefully more so initially on the road car division, to help develop the hybrid systems. It can only make the brand stronger.

[djos]

Toyota appear to be on course to release a car in 2027 (unless things slip) with a solid state battery. Which should have a bigger range (some estimates put it in the 600+ mile range) and won't take as long to charge. McLaren having access to that kind of battery technology would give them an advantage over it's competitors. I can see a Toyota and McLaren hypercar project happening before anything in F1 happens. But we'll see.

McLaren simply doesn't have the funding to build it's own F1 powertrain from scratch.

(unless things slip)

I would take Toyota and anything they say about EVs with a huge pinch of salt. They are miles behind in that area and here are some historic headlines about their impending solid state breakthrough.....

2023: "Toyota to roll out solid-state-battery EVs as soon as 2027"

2020: "Toyota's Quick-Charging Solid-State Battery Coming in 2025"

2017: "Toyota’s new solid-state battery could make its way to cars by 2020"

2014: "Toyota to Offer High Performance Solid-State Batteries in 2020"

Um. You might want to revise your statement about being miles behind. They hold far more battery patents than any other company.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/toyota- ... y-patents/

"Toyota is the leader, with 1,331 known patents. Panasonic took second place with 445"

They have more than 3 times the number of patents related to solid state batteries than anyone else so it would be a fair statement to make that they will be the first to get over that yardstick.

As far as hybrid technology goes they started it from a consumer point of view and have pretty much led the field since then doing more with smaller batteries.

If you need an example just look at something like the Toyota Yaris Cross. The sort of real world fuel mileage it gets (talking from personal experience as well as I regularly drive one) is impressive especially when you consider how small and low capacity the battery is. Their charging and deployment systems to maximise fuel economy is probably ahead of any of the other companies.

Personally I'd be happy to see Toyota form a partnership of some kind with McLaren, hopefully more so initially on the road car division, to help develop the hybrid systems. It can only make the brand stronger.

Patents do not equal Products - ask IBM.

https://qz.com/for-the-first-time-in-al ... %209%2C262.

[CHT]

SSB technology is already there, the only question is if there is potential for mass-market application due to its high cost. When we consider using SSB for supercars and hypercars, battery cost will become less of an issue. With its superior capacity, charging speed, and compact package and weight, it will be more appealing for McLaren to partner with a company like Toyota as they have very little or no overlap in their product offering. It is really mind-boggling to see how much EV supercar has evolved in the past 2 years, and now EV supercar is looking at <3 sec for 0-100kmh and some <2 sec.

If Geely can buy into Aston Martin, I dont see why Toyota cant do the same because everything is pretty much for sale, only question is the price.

[trinidefender]

(unless things slip)

I would take Toyota and anything they say about EVs with a huge pinch of salt. They are miles behind in that area and here are some historic headlines about their impending solid state breakthrough.....

2023: "Toyota to roll out solid-state-battery EVs as soon as 2027"

2020: "Toyota's Quick-Charging Solid-State Battery Coming in 2025"

2017: "Toyota’s new solid-state battery could make its way to cars by 2020"

2014: "Toyota to Offer High Performance Solid-State Batteries in 2020"

Um. You might want to revise your statement about being miles behind. They hold far more battery patents than any other company.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/toyota- ... y-patents/

"Toyota is the leader, with 1,331 known patents. Panasonic took second place with 445"

They have more than 3 times the number of patents related to solid state batteries than anyone else so it would be a fair statement to make that they will be the first to get over that yardstick.

As far as hybrid technology goes they started it from a consumer point of view and have pretty much led the field since then doing more with smaller batteries.

If you need an example just look at something like the Toyota Yaris Cross. The sort of real world fuel mileage it gets (talking from personal experience as well as I regularly drive one) is impressive especially when you consider how small and low capacity the battery is. Their charging and deployment systems to maximise fuel economy is probably ahead of any of the other companies.

Personally I'd be happy to see Toyota form a partnership of some kind with McLaren, hopefully more so initially on the road car division, to help develop the hybrid systems. It can only make the brand stronger.

Patents do not equal Products - ask IBM.

https://qz.com/for-the-first-time-in-al ... %209%2C262.

That's honestly a terrible comparison. Find a better example. Considering the different industry fields and applications of those patents means the argument isn't really cross comparable.

IBM pretty much spends R&D money to patent ideas and then license the technology. Toyota patents technologies it develops in house mostly for use in its own industry with some licensing. That's why it's not really a good comparison.

The best argument one can probably make is what is prevalent in military industrial complex companies and companies like SpaceX of not patenting something to try to keep it in house and secret. However due to the car industry and the like the idea of trying to keep things like battery technology secret would be orders of magnitude harder so it makes more sense to chase patents.

[FW17]

Mclaren roadcar with a LFA V10 and a hybrid battery would be good idea.

[Holm86]

Mclaren roadcar with a LFA V10 and a hybrid battery would be good idea.

It would be an even better idea to keep this thread on topic