Copying ideas from others

[raymondu999]

Hey all. There is something I don't get about F1. Is there any way to actually kind of "block" copying of ideas? I mean, we see that most cars this year, for example, have copied the RB v-nose and the shark fin. There are also several pretty similar front wings appearing. I know naturally if you see that another car's front/rear wing/chassis is faster then it'd make sense to copy it. But is there anything (rules-wise) against this? It would kind of mean that after a while most teams would converge to a single design which was the best of all worlds, wouldn't it?

[Jersey Tom]

Nah. Just because something is on another person's car, and they happen to be faster than you... (a) you don't know if that one design item is doing a damn thing to begin with (b) even if it is, doesn't mean it will happen to work with the rest of your chassis as a system (c) if you're always copying, you'll never have the lead. Just because something is 'hot' right now.. there's ALWAYS a better solution possible.

[WhiteBlue]

By definition F1 has no intellectual property protection like patents or utility patterns. As soon as the secret is out on the car and rivals can figure it out what was done you have no protection. Racing cars are not considered as commercial goods. The principle is also written somewhere in the Concord agreement IMO.

In oder to avoid stasis in development they usually change the rules in intervalls like the refuelling ban this year or the ban on DDDs next year.

[timbo]

By definition F1 has no intellectual property protection like patents or utility patterns.

And not that patents work so well all the time, anyway!

[mep]

In oder to avoid stasis in development they usually change the rules in intervalls like the refuelling ban this year or the ban on DDDs next year.

Quite funny theory.
So when every team finally managed to build a car with a big fuel tank they change the rules back to races with refueling.
This really gives me hope now that we will see refueling again next year.

[WhiteBlue]

In oder to avoid stasis in development they usually change the rules in intervalls like the refuelling ban this year or the ban on DDDs next year.

Quite funny theory.
So when every team finally managed to build a car with a big fuel tank they change the rules back to races with refueling.
This really gives me hope now that we will see refueling again next year.

LOL, nice joke. Refuelling changes the complete chassis layout as you probably know. It changes the weight distribution, the aero, the floor, the suspension, the wheel base, the crash structures and even the gearbox layout.

[mep]

Yea thats why they can switch back after everybody knows how a car has to look like with big tank.
It prefents stasis.

[donskar]

With the restrictions on testing and wind tunnel time, I think we'll see a lot more slavish copying. It takes less time to copy an idea than to develop and improve the same idea.

[gibells]

To answer the question there are now certain things you can't copy until the following year. Certain parts are homogolated, which means they cannot change until next year. I know of 2- the wheels and the tub. This is why McLaren have an advantage as they cleverly put a hole in their tub to allow for the f-duct (and presumably space around the seat. etc). Also Ferrari have some kind of advantage with their hubcaps. I'm sure there are others (homogolated items) but I can't name them because I don't know what they are.

[volarchico]

This really gives me hope now that we will see refueling again next year.

I really strongly doubt they'll remove the ban on refueling for at least another few years. There's a large enough change by banning the DDD next year that going back to refueling when they say that the ban is for safety doesn't make sense anytime soon.

[raymondu999]

I have a second question also related to this. Let's take for example the replacement of Willy Rampf with James Key. Obviously, James Key will have the same ideas of how to best interpret the rules. He will have one single opinion on how to best make a 2010 car design fast. But then he knows all the specifications that Force India have, and are using. He created them, why wouldn't he know them?

So what happens then? Will we see the Sauber having just similar features as the Force India? And having similar performance?

[ESPImperium]

Immitation is the greatest form of flattery i think.

Means youre doing something right.

Thats my view of it. However, id like to see 3 development breaks each year, where updates can only be applied to the cars then. But thats my oppinion.