Sidepod evolution

[Giblet]

Nice pic. Those intakes are near copies of the proven aircraft designs with their wingfront intakes.

[forty-two]

What a marvellous example of how a thread SHOULD look on F1Technical. Lots of techie stuff laid out and written in a way that even a layman such as myself can understand, along with reasoned debate about the validity or not of points raised in the process of the thread evolving.

Not sure if you guys will see this, but hat's off to you all, excellent work. If a similar thread is started in the future, I shall make sure to join in.

Thanks guys.... great work!

[deus1066]

Great article.

In my opinion modern tapered, shrinking sidepod design kicked-off with the Ferrari F2002 which to me was the father of the modern F1 car. I think the Mclaren MP4-18 followed a similar vein with the Mclaren MP4-19B being one of the first to support a significant undercut in the sidepods. The tapered undercut sidepod has become the de facto standard since.

I agree that we may have peaked last year with the Red Bull and Brawn as from now on they have to squeeze in a huge fuel tank.

It will be interesting to see how sidepod designs change for next year when presumably all the cars will be optimised for blown single deck diffusers.

Perhaps in a couple of years when they inevitable more to low capacity, blown engines we'll see some more major changes in this area due to reduced fuel requirement and changed cooling characteristics.

Good to see a nice technical article which hasn't descended into driver bashing and arguments!

[BreezyRacer]

First, today's sidepods are much more effective than a wing can be because of ground effects.

And most people are thinking that the sidepods just sit there and the airflow pressure is from the front. The reason that these sloping sidepods don't create lift from flow separation is because of the rear wings and diffuser effectively "pulling" airflow around the sidepods and thru them thus no air separation with these upper sloping surfaces. Same for the sides of the sidepods BTW. So sidepods and packaging will continue to sculpt to help the rear wings and diffuser take in all the airflow possible.

Funny but next year it will mean a little less given that the DD's will be gone. One of the bulkiest sidepods "per performance" we see these days is the Renault, but I think they have a well designed and massive diffuser setup to help make up for that. Their diffuser is less draggy than the RB style given that it does not have protruding inlets.

McLaren have bulky sidepods too and therein lies why they are wrestling with the pace of the RB IMO.

This is just how I see it BTW. I have no insider information.

[wesley123]

McLarens sidepods arent bulky, they have one of the smallest intakes and slope down quite steeply, it quits much sooner then other teams sidepods. Due to the downsloping the sidepods have much less of a coke bottle. All of these are compromises to get that huge rear diffuser working properly, they actually gave up a little on rear wing efficiency to get good diffuser flow.
Note that the Diffuser starts way earlier then others, probably around the cars centerline. Then they use the beam wing as extractor of air through the diffuser. These downsloping sidepods are used to get air over that diffuser to help its function. An much larger coke bottlwe shape isnt actually an ioption due to the fact the diffuser starts that soon, to then get that air flowing over there require an coke bottle that isnt even possible to make(yet), instead the coke bottle is used to get the air around the diffuser.

[gibells]

Should future engines revert back to line fours, then I should think we'd see a bit more asymmetry. McLaren are certainly not afraid of it the the back. How long before it trends to the front? Or is there some kind of regulation governing side impact protection on that score?

[wesley123]

well, i have thought about the return of line 4 engines, and what it brings with it is much less cooling that is needed, that is when i came with an idea to then house the radiator in the keel, helps CofG and also balance. If you see what mclaren can do with an V8 engine on the radiator cooling side then that would be cewrtainly possible, would make the sidepods really wingshaped, as those entries arent needed anymore(though you can use them pure aerodynamic.

[BreezyRacer]

McLarens sidepods arent bulky, they have one of the smallest intakes and slope down quite steeply, it quits much sooner then other teams sidepods. Due to the downsloping the sidepods have much less of a coke bottle. All of these are compromises to get that huge rear diffuser working properly, they actually gave up a little on rear wing efficiency to get good diffuser flow.
Note that the Diffuser starts way earlier then others, probably around the cars centerline. Then they use the beam wing as extractor of air through the diffuser. These downsloping sidepods are used to get air over that diffuser to help its function. An much larger coke bottlwe shape isnt actually an ioption due to the fact the diffuser starts that soon, to then get that air flowing over there require an coke bottle that isnt even possible to make(yet), instead the coke bottle is used to get the air around the diffuser.

Yes, but they have a bulge in the exhaust exits and since they use the beam wing for the diffuser it is effectively no longer a wing. RB and now just about everyone else use the beam wing as a wing now. Renault are the exception to that as well as McLaren. As for the diffuser staring earlier it's really difficult to tell. You know more than I do about that I guess. You know the diffuser intakes are regulated by the most forward suspension pivots right?

[wesley123]

Well, when the sidepod ends the diffuser has already started, as the floor there is raised, i do not know the use of that, it might even be possible they use radiator air into the rear diffuser.

And what do we understand as a wing, with a wing i think of this
An profile that comes to an trailing edge and has a non symmetric profile.
Such an wing or non wing discussion is greatly going on in LMP.

The beam wing is still an beam wing, though differently used, mclaren uses it as an underbody extractor, same like happened with the twin tier Group C cars. It is still a wing and it's purpose is still the same, to create downforce, so in that way it is still a wing, but how it is utilized is different.
Effectively every team uses this idea more or less, as everyone has their tunnels ending around the beam wings centerpoint. The Ferrari doesnt utilize it that much, as the hole is much more visible from above, others have it similair like mclaren, only in lesser extent due to the diffuser opening, the mclarens is much larger.
See Williams latest update for example, the beam wing there is used even more for that then it was. Effectively, if it is ment or not, every team is using it as an extractor due to the position of the tunnels.

[BreezyRacer]

If the beam wing is used as part of the diffuser exit it is not longer a wing even though you can argue that air flows above and below it. It ceases to be a wing. As for the radiator, there really is no way you want low energy airflow to be introduced into the diffuser. It would just create turbulence. Plus I don't think it would be legal since you are talking about then making a diffuser entry at the front of the sidepod.

Only Renault and McLaren now use the beam wing as a diffuser exit. I think that Merc also did that in testing and the first few races. Maybe Sauber too, I'm not totally sure. It's been a while. The key is whether the beam wing is separate of the diffuser so it creates a "pull" for the diffuser. I haven't seen any pics of the Williams at Silverstone. Do you have any of their diffuser?

[wrcsti]

I had posted somewere my thoughts on the tight sidepods possibly causing lift. Now with the DDD ban we may see sidepods ending higher up and almost flat tops to add a bit more downforce. Heck they might even try and use the exhaust as an airflow accelerator to gain even more DF from it.

[BreezyRacer]

I had posted somewere my thoughts on the tight sidepods possibly causing lift. Now with the DDD ban we may see sidepods ending higher up and almost flat tops to add a bit more downforce. Heck they might even try and use the exhaust as an airflow accelerator to gain even more DF from it.

I would expect they would be about the same, but they may be shaped a little more curvy when viewed from a side profile. Remember last year's Red Bull sidepods were quite compact way before they had a double diffuser. The compact packaging still helps to expose the rear wings to maximum airflow. It's just that some sculpting may be required to minimize airflow separation, as per your concern about lift creation.

Also last year an interesting sidepod shape was that of Force India. Those pods were almost truncated they dropped off so much. While it was not a dominant design it did have it's moments on high speed straights, but lacked lots of downforce and drag. They did not repeat that design this year and appear to be all the better for it.

[ringo]

The sidepods will look the same more or less. I don't think everything is centered around the diffuser as much as we would think.
The downslope of the sidepods actually assist more in the centre of pressure location than it does driving the diffuser.
It also affects flow to the beam wing and around the top of the floor itself. These parts are equally important as the diffuser.
The diffuser purpose is to lower the floor pressure, however if on top the car has low pressure as well, the net force on the body will not be great.

Another consideration is the vertical centre of pressure. Most people forget about this. Side pods have an influence on this as well.
I think the teams want this to line up with c.o.g or be lower than it. Depending on what they want the tyres to do, or the car to behave.

The steep sloping pods are also for pressure recovery. Boundary layer height increases with increasing distance over a surface. Lowering the surface as the boundary layer increases in height, keeps the boundary layer in the silhouette of the car reducing it's drag.

[wesley123]

@Breezyracer; The beam wing is still an alternate part, it isnt integrated to the diffuser, though they are very close together, other teams have it too due to their positioning and of the position of the tunnels. What it does is simply the same as an gurney, it acts as an extension of the tunnel and helps extraction due to the lower pressure created by it too.


The upper is the new, lower the old. As you can see the beam wing and tunnel exit it simply related to each other, if you wan tit or not, the relation is there. The idea is similair of what they did in Group C, the twin tier rear wing, you had an lower deck wich was a few cm above the diffuser trailing edge, these decks were quite long and to maximum length. Then you had an upper tier wich was short chord due to the interfeirence of the upper and lower tiers.

Overall such an setup increased downforce by 18% for no increase in drag, and such an 18% is an huge number, of course due to the F1 cars nature this will be less, but it is still an reasonable amount that can be created by this. Next year it will all be different again, the beam wing will probably be run at maximum height to get as much clean air over it. But this all is way off topic.

OT: I think sidepods will just stay the same, though they will be ever going tighter and tighter, next generation sidepods will be depending on what engine will be run. The sidepods will be combining downsloping and an big coke bottle, also the engine cover as small as possible to get as much clean air to this section. Also the sidepod shapes will be much cleaner, so no holes in it for the exhaust etc. What we will see is an different position for the exhaust, probably as low as possible, also to help lowering the CofG wich will be even more important.

[WhiteBlue]

I agree that there will not be so much change with next years regulations. But the 2013 power train is supposed to look radically different in terms of thermal treatment, fuel tank volume and KERS volume requirements.

The fuel tank is supposed to be reduced by 25% which will bring the engine further forward. Primary radiators for water and oil are likely to become smaller as the internal combustion efficiency increases.

A lot more space will be needed for the exhaust and air intake piping as the turbos will have to be connected to both systems. This should be another reason to go to I4 instead of V6 IMO. The turbos could be sticking out into the side pots if they use two. The rear KERS motor/generator could be a high torque unit integrated in the crank housing adding very little length to the car. The air box in the future is likely to look like the Mercedes unit this year.

The exhaust gas and the water are both likely to get heat extraction treatment for HERS. This could mean that more heat exchangers not exposed to the air stream are needed. They would probably also go into the side pot design. I think that side pots will keep a substantial length due to that requirement.