What happened to teammates?

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Post Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm

This is just what I have noticed in the past few grands prix.... It seems that nearly every team has inter-team conflict.
Perfect examples-
Germany where Massa led the whole race and was instructed to let Alonso take the lead. I understand why they did it, but just another source of conflict between team mates. Even the Torro Rosso team had a little scuffle when Alguersuari and Buemi had a small crash on the track.
Great Britain- Vettel and Webber conflict over new front wing, and Mark's comment after he crossed the finish line "Not bad for a number 2 driver"
Turkey-Seb and Mark crash to end the 1-2 finish..even Button and Hamilton had a little argument with their team about whether Button was going to pass Hamilton or not.
I completely understand the competitiveness of the drivers and teams and will to win, but the whole team concept is looking to be lost lately!
This is just what i noticed, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks about this.
Zach Miles- Purdue University
"Who's call was it to bring me in?...Frickin Terrible idea"
-Lewis Hamilton
zmiles2
 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: United States

Post Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:37 pm

How many optimal strategies are there for a team in a race?
How many of the new pieces for which there is only one every now and then?
How many development lines fit your driving style?
Who are you going to be dicing it with for the championship if your cars happens to turn dominant?
Who has the only car that you cannot overtake on track, as it has the exact same characteristics as yours?

In a middle team, bringing the team forward is the best strategy for you.
In a top team, bringing your teammate down is the most beneficial for you. If your car cannot win the championship, you will not win it anyways. If it can, your teammate is the most likely rival.

How many F1 drivers are not self-focused ultra-competitive people?
Wind turbines are cool, elegant and magnificent. TANSTAAFL!
hollus
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Post Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:07 am

zmiles2 wrote:I completely understand the competitiveness of the drivers and teams and will to win, but the whole team concept is looking to be lost lately!

Lately??

This has been the case ever since Colin Chapman's lotus was painted in the colors of a cigarette packet in back in 1968. That's when F1 turned from sport into a high-stakes business.
rfs
 
Joined: 13 Mar 2010

Post Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:52 am

What team policy? This is just an artificial concept invented by team bosses so they can rationalize moving their drivers around like pawns on a chessboard.

Let's see, one driver per car, he starts and finishes in the same car. If you win the WDC, only your name (and not of your teammate) goes into the record books. Fans come out to cheer for their favorite driver, I never noticed any "Vettel and Webber" banners in the stands at Hockenheim. If memory serves me correct, there were a lot of Vettel signs, but none linking him to his teammate.

Yea, in endurance racing they have more than one driver per car, they take turns ... to me that is a team activity.

To me, this is a sport of individuals battling on the track. Yea, sure they can co-operate on some minor issues. But when a driver lays down and allows a win to pass him by, he has stopped being a Grand Prix driver, and become a pussy.

Almost every driver is a selfish, strongly motivated individual who believes he's that good, and drives to win. And that's what I want, individuals competing to the very end, giving their all and never giving up. Those qualities are in almost every great champion, from Senna to Prost, to Schumacher.
Beer is cheaper than therapy.
DaveKillens
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2005

Post Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:47 am

I agree with all of you all, it just kind of gets to me how every team that is at the top of the Constructors Championship has some kind of inter-team conflict. Every driver should try their utmost to win every single grand prix. However, when drivers are 1-2, like Massa and Alonso, the team should not interfere with the race like they did at Hockenheim.
Zach Miles- Purdue University
"Who's call was it to bring me in?...Frickin Terrible idea"
-Lewis Hamilton
zmiles2
 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: United States

Post Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:06 pm

But the interference is there anyways.
Do you think Alonso would have been so careful when he nearly passes if the rival hadn't been the other ferrari? Do you really think that Vetter cannot come even close to Webber (most of the time) when he is behind and viceversa? Do you believe that there is an invisible energy field separating Hamilton and Button by a minimum of 1 second? No, those are team orders too, no battling on track with your teammate, and everybody is understood with that. If you want to pass your teammate, you do it in the pits, or you get close and hope for an error, otherwise, it can end up like Vettel and Webber this year.
Teammates are not racing eachother much beyond the first corner, really, and that's not racing. Alonso and Massa were put in the same strategy to defend from Vettel and ensure a 1-2. How is that racing without interference?
Wind turbines are cool, elegant and magnificent. TANSTAAFL!
hollus
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:06 pm

Massa: I'd rather quit than be a number two driver

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"To race is to live. But those who
died while racing knew, perhaps,
how to live more than all others."
~ Juan Fangio
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:42 am

If your only, and ultimate goal, is to beat your teammate, you will bubble sort yourself to the top.

Beating your teammate will get you better drives, where you will again beat your teammate, until you have a shiny trophy and millions of dollars.

The trick is HOW you beat your teammate of the year. Do it honestly with unquestionable speed and prowess, and all will fall into place.

Simple huh? ;)
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:47 am

How times have changed... Prost and Senna used to get on so well.
jonathan189
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2009

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:37 pm

Would the race "the show" be better if there was only be one driver driving for the team?

Will this eliminate these idiotic politics? politics and rigging really punishes
Formula 1 and this should not happen and it is stupid and boring. Why can't the team and drivers just race.

If there would be 1 driver for the team, F1 could save millions of dollars to run
event and teams. It will be also cheaper to own a team for example it could cost to run a team between $50,000,000 to $100,000,000 dollars and could cover everything.

One driver per team can also eliminate team orders which Ferrari did this in the last race. Massa deserves the win and not alonso (alonso got a dirty win).
Last edited by mx_tifoso on Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged seperate thread named "One driver and no politics' into here.
mkw0101
 
Joined: 14 Jun 2010

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:54 pm

1) how old are you?

2) please re-think what you have written

3) this has happened since the 50s and till the 2000 fisrt decade no one never ever complained about that, Alonso win was as dirty as it needed to be

4) this is not Indycar

5) the cost structures made 2 or even 3 car teams more economical than single car teams

6) please mods, merge this with some of the other team politics threads there are

have a nice day
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
Belatti
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Argentina


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