Christian Horner is complaining about engine disadvantages

[xpensive]

When speculating, if RBR wins both titles this year, Mateschitz' and Marko's egos are likely to reach unforeseen proportions, demanding xclusivity on the engine side, enter Audi-badged Porches perhaps?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Did someone mention that Adrian Newey didnt want the Mercedes-Benz V8?

If thats the case, why is Horner still bleating?

Hypocricy of the highest order if thats correct.....

[xpensive]

Only human nature JET, remember Nigel Mansell during the 1992 season complaining about his FW14B?

But I'm not sure why Newey would be negative towards the Mercedes, must be in the very details in that case? McLaren redesigning their nimble MP4-8 for the giant Lamborghini V12 in 1993, that was an accommodation worthwhile mentioning.

[Just_a_fan]

My understanding is that Newey wanted the Renault engine because of its lower heat rejection. We can see, looking at how tightly the RB6 is packaged, why that was important to him. A bit less power at the wheels will probably, in his mind, be offset by the lower drag possible with tighter packaging.

[segedunum]

But I'm not sure why Newey would be negative towards the Mercedes, must be in the very details in that case?

Does anyone have something where Red Bull have outright rejected the Mercedes engine? I understood that they were trying to get it before this season and were effectively blocked by McLaren. Interestingly, Mercedes now do not want to supply Red Bull either probably because it could well put their team at risk next year if they have another year like this one.

McLaren redesigning their nimble MP4-8 for the giant Lamborghini V12 in 1993, that was an accommodation worthwhile mentioning.

Yer, an interesting footnote in history. I would like to have seen that car race. You certainly couldn't get two more different engines.

[xpensive]

From the HB to the Lamborghini V12, yeah, Senna was reportedly a full second quicker around Silverstone with the latter and wanted to race it! As enthusiastic was Chrysler, offering McLaren anything but barbecued cats, but Ron the con had already set his sights on Peugeot, thinking they cannot enter F1 without beating Renault.

Seemed like a good idea at the time I guess.

Btw, I have a feeling that RBR will indeed have Mercedes engines next year.

[segedunum]

Btw, I have a feeling that RBR will indeed have Mercedes engines next year.

Not so sure. It depends on a few factors and Newey will obviously have to look long and hard at the integration of it before a decision is made. It certainly puts the Mercedes team under tremendous pressure, but then, I think the Mercedes board are quite detached from the race team and expect them to prove their existence. I can't see it being a happy time there.

It does mean that other teams will probably get the Renault engine supply they are obviously seeking though.

[xpensive]

What if MrE is correct and Mercedes is one of the teams bowing out, realizing that being team-owners was not their preferred game, just like BMW did? Reducing their involvement to being an engine-supplier, but what's the point pissing away a supply to FI?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What if MrE is correct and Mercedes is one of the teams bowing out, realizing that being team-owners was not their preferred game, just like BMW did? Reducing their involvement to being an engine-supplier, but what's the point pissing away a supply to FI?

Nah it wont be Mercedes.

Their influence on the team is yet to be seen. And the company is now making money faster than you can print it. Their SLS AMG has a 19 month waiting list, Ferrari 458 12months.

I would say HRT are gone, possibly Virgin. 3rd team would be Sauber, very sadly in my opinion. the investment hasnt turned up, and unlike Brawn last year there is no fairytale or saviour just yet. Kobayashi on the other hand shows why teams like Sauber must survive somehow....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Btw, I have a feeling that RBR will indeed have Mercedes engines next year.

Mclarens veto will still hold for 2011 I think. Or it may be that it expires when they have paid Mercedes off.
either way I dread to think how fast they would be with Merc ponies....

[segedunum]

either way I dread to think how fast they would be with Merc ponies....

RB are down on power. It's not the 30 or 40 horsepower Horner claims I think but you could visibly see it at Silverstone when Vettel was doing his overtaking, in Germany and in Hungary when Vettel was behind Alonso. The car had problems keeping up when the Ferrari or the Merc got their second winds even when they were in the slipstream. It's probably costing them two or three tenths, depending on how good the Renault is in other areas. Horner reckons it's four.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

either way I dread to think how fast they would be with Merc ponies....

RB are down on power. It's not the 30 or 40 horsepower Horner claims I think but you could visibly see it at Silverstone when Vettel was doing his overtaking, in Germany and in Hungary when Vettel was behind Alonso. The car had problems keeping up when the Ferrari or the Merc got their second winds even when they were in the slipstream. It's probably costing them two or three tenths, depending on how good the Renault is in other areas. Horner reckons it's four.

No way is it 30-40 Horsepower. Not in a month of Sundays.
What Horner is trying to do is to get another FIA approved adjustment so that Renault can get ahead in the power stakes.
I dont trust a word that clown says....

[747heavy]

just as an interesting side note maybe.

I think Newey has first hand expirience with both engine manufacturers Renault(Williams) and Mercedes(McLaren) so he will know what he preferes.
Sure the engines/times where different,but it is maybe more related to the mentality and culture of the people involved.
I think (IIRC) there was some friction between Illmor/Merc and Newey about some design priorities at McLaren(engine vs. aero war if you like)

I´m not 100% sure, but IIRC was there not an engine supply swap between RBR and STR?
Why Newey maybe not flat out rejected the Merc, I think he prefered the Renault vs. the Ferrari.
I think the Renault engine fits his bill better, as it is much easier to integrate into his style of car (aero efficient car).
Sure if you could have all the advantages of the Renault with another 20-30hp on top, why not ? It won´t hurt
But Eastern and Christmas is normaly not on the same day.

As for Horner, that´s just part of the gamemanship in F1, everybody want´s to whinge about something. Some do about tires, some about DDD, some about F-Ducts etc. etc., it´s just part of the game, nothing too seriuos.

I thinks most/some of the gains in the "frozen" engine come from fuel&lubrication engineering, maybe Renault, now with Total as partner, is a bit behind the curve compare to other engine/oil company combo´s.

[SiLo]

I read somewhere once that Mclaren use some weird special oil from Mobil 1. That gives them about a tenth a lap on the older stuff. Pretty amazing if you ask me. Also, Horner is always moaning about something, yes lies blatantly to the camera when they ask about how the front wing is flexing, I suppose the fact that they had to change their rear suspension because they were running it illegally slipped by a lot of the media.

[xpensive]

You shouldn't believe everything you read SiLo, the paramount properties of a lubricant is viscosity at a given temp, viscosity-index, oxidation rate and various additives such as EPs and anti-foam. Everything else is just horse-s**t.