If no rules?

[PNSD]

I am not an engine guy.

To me, if it sounds good then it must be good

And for me, more is better than less!!

So my question is, if there were very limited regulations allowing for variety what would be the engine of choice? Numbers would be nice, power, weight etc :p

If you say a limit of 800hp, and only internal combustion allowed what would be the best in your opinions for an F1 car?

[Tomba]

...

Some ideas in the 2013 engine thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6508

[Tim.Wright]

I always wondered what would come from the pen of some of today's engineers if you gave them a few hours to conceptualise a car using todays technology but the rules from 1950.

That is;
1500cc compressed or 4.5L naturally aspirated engines
No weight limit
No fuel limits
No limit on number of driven wheels
Open Aero
etc, etc, etc...

Tim

[G37Sam]

Dayum, those are some nice rules!

[Tim.Wright]

thanks

[Just_a_fan]

I always wondered ...

Well I'd have thought c.1500bhp from either engine configuration would be on the cards (especially if special fuel were used). Aero would likely be fan assisted full ground effect and I can see 6 wheels being a favourite too with 4 driven rear wheels to aid traction although with ABS, TC and ESP systems (assuming they're 'free') too.

The thing would be all but undriveable in reality. It would go, stop and (crucially) corner with such acceleration levels that a human would be little more than a passenger...

I'd bet that fan assisted full ground effect with fully active suspension would generate 10+ g cornering. Assuming the tyres held up, of course.

[flynfrog]

Or the road surface

[oliviathn]

Yes, you are right. We are using new styles and facilities of cars but still we are using rules of 1950s. It is too fun also, but you just thing that on that time peoples are how much intelligent in technology, and we don't need to change 1950s rules of cars.

[spacer]

If you were to put a cap on power, say 800BHP, without any relevant limits on how this power is generated (800BHP from a N/A 4.5L) I think you would probably end up with a torque curve that is nearly linear downwards, so that you end up with a power curve that is flat throughout the usefull powerband. For instance 620Nm @ 9000rpm and 310Nm @ 18000rpm, both generating just under 800BHP.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If you were to put a cap on power, say 800BHP, without any relevant limits on how this power is generated (800BHP from a N/A 4.5L) I think you would probably end up with a torque curve that is nearly linear downwards, so that you end up with a power curve that is flat throughout the usefull powerband. For instance 620Nm @ 9000rpm and 310Nm @ 18000rpm, both generating just under 800BHP.

If you have a limit of 800bhp, the defining factor wll be torque. So in essence, big capacity V8's or High end Diesels would be the norm as they have the torquiest and most driveable characteristics.
Acceleration would be phenomanal, especially once the car isnt traction limited.
Teams could run huge amounts of downforce as the torque available would push top speeds higher.
More downforce = more speed through corners = higher G
So much so that G-force within the cockpit couldnt be sustained for an entire race.

[747heavy]

If you were to put a cap on power, say 800BHP, without any relevant limits on how this power is generated (800BHP from a N/A 4.5L) I think you would probably end up with a torque curve that is nearly linear downwards, so that you end up with a power curve that is flat throughout the usefull powerband. For instance 620Nm @ 9000rpm and 310Nm @ 18000rpm, both generating just under 800BHP.

If you have a limit of 800bhp, the defining factor wll be torque. So in essence, big capacity V8's or High end Diesels would be the norm as they have the torquiest and most driveable characteristics.
Acceleration would be phenomanal, especially once the car isnt traction limited.
Teams could run huge amounts of downforce as the torque available would push top speeds higher.
More downforce = more speed through corners = higher G
So much so that G-force within the cockpit couldnt be sustained for an entire race.

would make for interesting starts and exits from low speed corners (if no TC allowed)
because in this cases you have no/little downforce (unless you have a fandriven inverse hover craft of course )

[paulonorcatto]

thing is when people start talking about no rules cars they come up with a car that would be lightning quick but completely undrivable. even if all the tracks had massive run off areas, the drivers would still black out due to the g forces probably even with a g suit.

surely with unrestricted aero and driver aids the engine would have to take the fall and be lowered so the car would be drivable. afterall the team wants a driver and car that can last the race distance.

what sort of hp would we be looking at if this were the case?

[Edis]

If you were to put a cap on power, say 800BHP, without any relevant limits on how this power is generated (800BHP from a N/A 4.5L) I think you would probably end up with a torque curve that is nearly linear downwards, so that you end up with a power curve that is flat throughout the usefull powerband. For instance 620Nm @ 9000rpm and 310Nm @ 18000rpm, both generating just under 800BHP.

WRC engines already have such power curves. With turbocharging it's quite easy to reduce boost pressure with increasing engine speed to achieve just that.

Engine speeds would also be much lower.