Schumacher's defensive move on Barrichello

[Tomba]

As regular followers of Formula 1 know; people, fans, critics, teams, drivers and commentators have various opinions on Michael Schumacher's defensive move on Rubens Barrichello in the Hungarian Grand Prix of 2010.

But after looking back through some season highlights of 2008 I found a clip of defensive move by Mark Webber on Felipe Massa at the Japanese Grand Prix of 2008. When you look at it, it is very similar to Schumacher's move. Maybe not as dangerous and close but very similar.

Just thought I'd like to point this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elyxIhMW_No&feature=fvw

this was the best video i could find.
It's the first one.

[raymondu999]

perhaps posting a video would serve beneficial?

[imightbewrong]

The difference (IMO), is that Webber makes the move before Massa is side by side, and that he does not push him within cm of a concrete wall.

[Neco FEROX]

He also waits until after the wall to push Massa a bit more.



This is better detail.
It's overtake number 6 (3:30).

[Diesel]

He also waits until after the wall to push Massa a bit more.



This is better detail.
It's overtake number 6 (3:30).

Its just as dangerous, possibly more dangerous, how could Webber have know if anyone was coming out of the pitlane?

I highly doubt he radioed his team and said "hey mate, anybody coming down the pitlane? i'm going to push massa out there"

[lolzi]

I think it's strange that both moves (Barichello's and Massa's) were allowed - as far as I know, the white line means track limit. In my opinion, both moves are about the same as cutting a chicane.

[raymondu999]

The reason that move is (quote unquote) "allowed) is that track-cutting in terms of overtaking is viewed more in terms of cutting the inside of a corner

[natehall]

I think the key thing here is that schumacher is a hard all or nothing racer. It is his DNA and has been since 1994 when he made a questionable move on Damon Hill.

In 1994 I hated him, over the years I have become fan of him due to the do or die attitude. Nobody complained when senna would run someone towards the wall, they either backed off or crashed, Martin brundle even commented on this on a VT Earlier this year.

They say times have changed, maybe this is true but does this also mean the racers have become tamer and scared of a true out and out fight and possible crash?

Schumacher knows about big crashes, he had one in 1999 and a bike accident in 2009 - but as a racer he pushes for the win no matter how awful the car is. and in his mind 10th will be 100 times better than 11th, exactly the same as 9th is 100 times better than 10th...

Surely we should be applauding someone going all out and taking risks - rather than the rather processional races we have seen, motor racing is dangerous - and these guys are paid danger money to go out there and give it 100%!

[siskue2005]

haha

that is coz its just Weber who made that move and it was non issue

But this year its MICHAEL SCHUMACHER!!!! as everyone wants a piece of him!!

[Pup]

I remember that. Webber definitely caught flack for it, though not as much as Schumi. I think a big part of the difference is that it was Barrichello, and the history that brought with it.

And also there's a difference of perception between the two. Webber is seen as the underdog, a nice guy who's forced to fight tough to get ahead. Schumi, on the other hand, is the psychopath, a ruthless competitor from day one.

Neither is correct, imo. Webber is also aggressive to make up for his lack of skill; while Schumi, in addition to being a psychopath, is also old and easily confused on track.

[lolzi]

The reason that move is (quote unquote) "allowed) is that track-cutting in terms of overtaking is viewed more in terms of cutting the inside of a corner

But it SHOULD be disallowed, then we wouldn't have these situations at all - the only reason these situations were "dangerous" was because the cars were a place they should not.

[andrew]

I still maintain that there was absolutely nothing wrong in what Schumacher did. If anyone was in the wrong it was Barrichello.

From the on-board from Barrichellos car you can see that the gap to the right of Schumacher was shrinking yet Barrichello continued to go steaming through which was just darn stupid. RB was obviously faster and should have waited to pass later on.

The thing with Schumacher is he is an easy target for critics and media hacks alike. He is the most successful driver in the history of the sport so when he has a bad day the media hack stick the boot in. Add to that the bitter ex-team mate and hey you've got a story to blow out of all proportion.

We have all seen other drivers make wild swipes accross the track but nothing is ever said. I recall Webber squeezing (Kobyashi I think) at teh start of the Brazilian GP last year but nothing was said. Same with his move at the Nurburgring. He got a soft penalty and it was forgotten about.

As Gerhard Berger said, that's the way it used to be done. I think the main problem is that F1 has become too sanitized so when there is proper old school racing rather than everyone applauding it, it is treated with contempt.

But here's a closing thought. Prost v Senna, Japan 1990, Prost on the left Senna on the right. Senna rams Prost off the track after being very open about his intention to do this prior to the race. I still don't get why is that hailed as being a great move?

[GTSpeedster]

I still maintain that there was absolutely nothing wrong in what Schumacher did. If anyone was in the wrong it was Barrichello.

From the on-board from Barrichellos car you can see that the gap to the right of Schumacher was shrinking yet Barrichello continued to go steaming through which was just darn stupid. RB was obviously faster and should have waited to pass later on.

The thing with Schumacher is he is an easy target for critics and media hacks alike. He is the most successful driver in the history of the sport so when he has a bad day the media hack stick the boot in. Add to that the bitter ex-team mate and hey you've got a story to blow out of all proportion.

We have all seen other drivers make wild swipes accross the track but nothing is ever said. I recall Webber squeezing (Kobyashi I think) at teh start of the Brazilian GP last year but nothing was said. Same with his move at the Nurburgring. He got a soft penalty and it was forgotten about.

As Gerhard Berger said, that's the way it used to be done. I think the main problem is that F1 has become too sanitized so when there is proper old school racing rather than everyone applauding it, it is treated with contempt.

But here's a closing thought. Prost v Senna, Japan 1990, Prost on the left Senna on the right. Senna rams Prost off the track after being very open about his intention to do this prior to the race. I still don't get why is that hailed as being a great move?

100% agreed.

And since you've mentioned it, if that 1990 move by Senna is not a obvious reason to disqualification I guess nothing else is; and that is why I – although being Brazilian – could never regard Senna as an actual three-timed World champion.

[manchild]

"Defensive"? It was Blitzkrieg!

[Giblet]

Prost v Senna, Japan 1990, Prost on the left Senna on the right. Senna rams Prost off the track after being very open about his intention to do this prior to the race. I still don't get why is that hailed as being a great move?

I don't think it was hailed as a great move, but as a great driver throwing his toys. Many of the greats, including Schumacher, have done it.