Mosleys Revenge Begins??

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:00 pm

1993:
- The thickness of drivers’ head protection padding in the cockpit is increased from 80 to 400 millimetres.
- The height of the rear wing is reduced, the distance from the front wing to the ground is increased and the circumference of the steering wheel is reduced.
- Only normal fuel may now be used.

1994:
- Traction control, ABS, assisted brakes and automatic gears are prohibited as auxiliary driving features. Small front wings and a shorter diffuser reduce downforce.
- The FIA uses computer analysis to identify 27 particularly dangerous corners that have to be made safer.
- Crash tests for tyre barriers become mandatory, and the barriers must now also be secured by rubber belts.
- The speed limit in the pit lane is reduced to 80 km/h in practice and 120 km/h in races.
- The production standard for helmets becomes stricter. Ear plugs are prohibited so the drivers can hear better.

1995:
- Engine capacity is reduced from 3.5 to 3 litres.
- Crash tests become stricter, lateral crash tests are introduced, front wings are reduced.
- The FIA introduces new criteria for the acquisition of an F1 Superlicence.

1997:
- FIA accident data recorders are installed in all cars for more precise accident analysis.
- Small wings on the rear and sides are prohibited.
- Tyre barriers have to be bolted down.

1998:
- Car width is reduced from 2 to 1.8 metres, cockpits are enlarged.
- Grooved tyres instead of slicks are introduced to try to reduce cornering speeds.

1999:
- Wheels are attached to the chassis by tethers to stop them from flying off during accidents.
- The seat and driver can be removed together.
- The crash tests for the front of the car become stricter.
- Asphalt instead of gravel is used for some of the run-off zones.

2000:
- Impact speed for the mandatory crash test is raised from 13 to 14 metres per second.
- The carbon fibre walls of the cockpit must be at least 3.5 mm thick.
- The 2.5 mm Kevlar layer inside the cockpit walls is designed to resist penetration.
- The rollover bar above the driver’s head is raised by 20 to 70 cm and must be able to withstand a lateral force of 2.4 tons.
- Steering wheel: in the event of an accident, the driver must be able to exit the vehicle within ten seconds and re-attach the steering wheel.
- Rear-view mirrors: the mirrors must measure at least 120 x 50 millimetres.
- Time penalty: the penalty is shown on all trackside clocks, as well as the exact time the decision to penalise was taken by race stewards. From this point on, the driver concerned has three laps in which to go to the pits to sit out the penalty.

2001:
- Blue flag: a driver must allow a vehicle behind him to pass when the blue flag is shown for the third time. Otherwise a 10-second stop-and-go penalty will be imposed.
- The marshals are protected better by stricter safety specifications.
- Headrests must be mounted in accordance with FIA standards.
- Cockpit walls at a driver’s head level must rise to the rear at a slope of at least 16 degrees.

2002:
- Two-way telemetry: for the first time, the FIA allows not only engine, brake and suspension data to be transmitted to the pits, but also permits teams to send data back to the cars to adjust these parameters. In extreme cases, the engines can be limited or even turned off by radio: under yellow flags, for example, when another car has stopped in a dangerous position on the circuit. If the race is interrupted, drivers may change cars. But this is only allowed if the driver in the lead has not completed more than two laps.
- Penalties: time penalties (stop-and-go) can be imposed on drivers who trigger a false start, cause an accident or collision, force another driver off the track, fail to heed a blue flag three times, or intentionally impede another driver trying to overtake. Time penalties are also incurred for exceeding the speed limit in the pit lane, and may be imposed for running over chicanes if this gives an advantage to the driver in terms of track position.
- Crash test: there is a new lateral test for the rear of the cars. A force of 40 kN is exerted for 30 seconds on a defined area of the carbon fibre wall. There may be no discernible deformation following this applied force.
- Rear lights are increased in size to 6 x 6 centimetres.
- Power steering: power steering has been permitted since January 1st 2002, but without electronic control.
- Drivers: each team may change their lead driver once and their second driver three times during the season. In case of extreme circumstances, such as illness or accident, drivers may be replaced more often.

2003:
Numerous circuits undergo reconstruction prior to the season so as to improve safety even further.
- Silverstone: the Stowe corner’s run-off zone is changed to asphalt.
- Nurburgring: the chicane before the final corner is revised.
- Magny-Cours: the pits’ new exit lane is made safer as the cars now enter the circuit at racing speed.
- Budapest: the run-off zones and safety walls in the first corner are increased in size.
- Suzuka: the winding circuit is given larger run-off zones and new emergency access routes.

2004:
- Monte Carlo is given a permanent pit lane with garages for all the teams.
- New standards: the new tracks in Bahrain and Shanghai set new standards in terms of safety.
- Helmets: the FIA lays down a new standard which sets out even higher requirements for the safety of helmets.

2005:
- Head support: the protecting cushions on the inside of the cockpit are thickened from 75 to 100 millimetres.
- Wheel tethers: the wheels are connected to the chassis with high-performance tethers. Each tether must be able to withstand a minimum load of six tons.
- The Istanbul Park Circuit, built for the Turkish Grand Prix, is one of the safest and most modern Formula One tracks.

2006:
- The impact speed for the rear crash test is increased from 12 to 15 metres per second.

2007:
- The test kilometres permitted between January 1 and December 31 are limited to 30,000 per team. In the process, a maximum of 300 sets of tyres may be used. If the safety car comes onto the track, the pit lane is closed and only opened again when the entire field has formed up in position behind the safety car. The cars are fitted with diodes that transmit the flag signals from the marshals to the drivers in the cockpits.
- Circuits: for the first time since 1977, the Japanese Grand Prix is held in Fuji again and not in Suzuka. After a year’s break for reconstruction work to improve track safety, Spa has returned to the calendar.
- For safety reasons the speed limit in the pit lane is reduced from 100 to 80 km/h.
- During a safety-car phase, any lapped cars positioned between the cars running on the lead lap may overtake them and the safety car, in order to take up position at the back of the field. This is designed to prevent the leading drivers from being separated or even hindered by trailing cars at the re-start.

2008:
- Traction control is no longer permitted, which hopefully results in more overtaking manoeuvres.
- At the same time electronic starting assistance will be forbidden.
- A gearbox has to last for four Grand Prix weekends with effect from the start of the 2008 world championship.


take your pick
may also need to seperate between active and passive safety.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
747heavy
 
Joined: 6 Jul 2010

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:29 pm

People should differentiate between facts that can be confirmed and opinions. Some facts:

  • Formula1 had less heavy injury accidents or even fatalities than any other top motor sport series in the world. Several F1 drivers have commented that they owe their lives to the safety measures driven by Mosley.
  • The FiA institute is a unique institution completely devoted to improve safety in motor sport. It was founded and funded by initiative of Mosley and under his presidency.
  • The work of the FiA to offer young people opportunities to compete in safe and regulated motor sport has massively reduced illegal street racing in such countries that work closely with the Fia. Illegal racing is virtually unknown in Europe and the UK.
  • The systematic work of the FiA with Euro NCAP and in world wide car and traffic safety regulations has saved countless lives and reduced injury and harm to millions of people.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:37 pm

Basically, the Italian article said this:

1. Max is going to be a pain in the ass.
2. Todt said that he would keep the FIA running like Max did in order to get Max on his side.
3. Max is now mad that Todt has done nothing to keep the FIA running like Max did.
4. Max has cronies still in the FIA that are ready to oust Todt at the next election.
5. Max thinks he still runs the show and his people will help him do so.
6. Questions arise about Max's real power since Max wanted Ferrari to lose everything because of the team orders, but nothing happened. This questions if Max's cronies really are with him or not.
7. Come November 5th, we will see who really has the power, Max and his cronies or Todt.
ecapox
 
Joined: 14 May 2010

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:06 pm

747heavy wrote:
1994:
- Traction control, ABS, assisted brakes and automatic gears are prohibited as auxiliary driving features. Small front wings and a shorter diffuser reduce downforce.


It has been noted before that all these were introduced without reducing the engine power. So, suddenly you've got a very powerful car but with very much limited means to control it. I think that contributed to the fatalities and the other injuries in 1994.
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:00 pm

ecapox wrote:Basically, the Italian article said this:

1. Max is going to be a pain in the ass.
2. Todt said that he would keep the FIA running like Max did in order to get Max on his side.
3. Max is now mad that Todt has done nothing to keep the FIA running like Max did.
4. Max has cronies still in the FIA that are ready to oust Todt at the next election.
5. Max thinks he still runs the show and his people will help him do so.
6. Questions arise about Max's real power since Max wanted Ferrari to lose everything because of the team orders, but nothing happened. This questions if Max's cronies really are with him or not.
7. Come November 5th, we will see who really has the power, Max and his cronies or Todt.


True Jean Todt did have Mosleys support, but it is interesting to not that Ari Vatanen also sought Mosleys support but was literally thrown out on his ear from the office of MrM. Mosley chose Jean Todt as he thought Todt would be a puppet. Thankfully he was wrong.

Point 5 - thus the self created position on the FIA Senate.

On point 6, the problem is that Mosley let team orders go on for as long and set a dangerous precedent that it is near impossible to make any significant punishment stick.

The fact that Mosley continues with his vandettas against anything connected with Ferrari is really sad for what seems on paper to be a well educated fellow who held a significant and extremely influential position in world motorsport. Looks bad for the FIA with him still lingering around like a vulture (sorry, insult to vultures) waiting to pick at the scraps of a corpse.

As for the safety thing, yes the safety does seem over the top at times, but it is a good thing and has saved lives (most recently Massa last year and Webber at the Valencia GP). If you want to watch sickening crashes with drivers dying left, right and centre, you are clearly spending far too much time on you Playstation and are (if not already) loosing touch with reality.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:15 pm

Bit more here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=42278

Basically, Mosley and his cronies are scared of the FIA reforms which will reduce the the Mosley gang's powers. Hopefully good snce will prevail and Jean Todt will continue with his excellent work.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:31 pm

andrew wrote:Bit more here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=42278

Basically, Mosley and his cronies are scared of the FIA reforms which will reduce the the Mosley gang's powers. Hopefully good snce will prevail and Jean Todt will continue with his excellent work.


I wont call Todt's work good as he havent done anything. He doesnt say ---, he doesnt do ---, complete the opposite of Mosley. Since Todt is president the teams have free game in what they do, afterall little Todt wont do a goddamn thing.
wesley123
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2008

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:42 pm

wesley123 wrote:
andrew wrote:Bit more here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=42278

Basically, Mosley and his cronies are scared of the FIA reforms which will reduce the the Mosley gang's powers. Hopefully good snce will prevail and Jean Todt will continue with his excellent work.


I wont call Todt's work good as he havent done anything. He doesnt say ---, he doesnt do ---, complete the opposite of Mosley. Since Todt is president the teams have free game in what they do, afterall little Todt wont do a goddamn thing.


He has reformed the inner workings of the FIA but this has been done in a very low key way through quiet leadership, which is so much better than what went on previously.

As for letting the teams do what they like, that is total just not true. The teams have got away with all sorts for years. It is the shenanigans of the previous years which has allowed the teams to carry on like they have with team orders.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:55 pm

I would hazard a wild guess that this is about two different issues really;

a) As an x-Peugeot and Ferrari employee, Todt has came out as a FOTA-man, unfathomable that MrM couldn't see that coming.

b) Todt has questioned privileges and perhaps even asked delegates to produce something of value for their remunerations.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:33 pm

ecapox wrote:Basically, the Italian article said this:

1. Max is going to be a pain in the ass.
2. Todt said that he would keep the FIA running like Max did in order to get Max on his side.
3. Max is now mad that Todt has done nothing to keep the FIA running like Max did.
4. Max has cronies still in the FIA that are ready to oust Todt at the next election.
5. Max thinks he still runs the show and his people will help him do so.
6. Questions arise about Max's real power since Max wanted Ferrari to lose everything because of the team orders, but nothing happened. This questions if Max's cronies really are with him or not.
7. Come November 5th, we will see who really has the power, Max and his cronies or Todt.


Thank you, escapox. Important piece, IMHO. I don't think anyone else generates as much emotion as Mosley. In just two pages he is both a savior and a murderer.

I am glad to see him gone, and nothing he would do would surprise me. I think no action is beneath him. I think a paraphrase of Phil Hill's evaluation of Enzo is appropriate (see my signature): "Mosley might have been a great man. He was certainly not a good man."
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Texas, USA

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:49 pm

xpensive wrote:I would hazard a wild guess that this is about two different issues really;

a) As an x-Peugeot and Ferrari employee, Todt has came out as a FOTA-man, unfathomable that MrM couldn't see that coming.

b) Todt has questioned privileges and perhaps even asked delegates to produce something of value for their remunerations.


I think the bigger issue here is that Max feels that Todt screwed him. Max backed Todt and in return max believed that Todt wasnt going to shake up the foundation that Max laid. Instead Todt has done a lot in terms of shaking the place up, one of which the article calls "democratization" of the FIA. Somethign that Max would never have let happen. He expected that Todt would keep on keepin on and that he wold have a say in all FIA affairs thanks to giving Todt his backing.

Another key point is that Max believes he still has people that he can trust in the FIA that will attempt to oust Todt ASAP. The article's author states that this may be a figment of Max's imagination because of the recent Ferrari hearing. One in which Max would have removed all constructor and WDC points from both drivers. If he had all these people on his side, the "lenient" slap on the wrist Ferrari got should have never happened.
ecapox
 
Joined: 14 May 2010

Post Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:11 pm

ecapox wrote:6. Questions arise about Max's real power since Max wanted Ferrari to lose everything because of the team orders, but nothing happened. This questions if Max's cronies really are with him or not.


I think this is simply that the World Motorsport Council is not the FIA, and he has no power but the power to suggest what he thinks.

It's like a lawyer suggesting a punishment to the judge.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:01 am

Giblet wrote:
ecapox wrote:6. Questions arise about Max's real power since Max wanted Ferrari to lose everything because of the team orders, but nothing happened. This questions if Max's cronies really are with him or not.

I think this is simply that the World Motorsport Council is not the FIA, and he has no power but the power to suggest what he thinks.
It's like a lawyer suggesting a punishment to the judge.

Every chief executive picks his own people and executes his own style. To construe a big conflict between Mosley and Todt is not very credible. The main issue here is that the FiA continues as the governing body of motor sport and remains in control of the big policy issues of F1 like success, cost control, viability, energy efficiency and diversity of teams and manufacturers. I believe that this weeks rumors are just another exercise in weakening the powers of the federation that will quickly be forgotten.

http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news ... t_id=42278

This all sounds like some people are trying to leak internals to the press to further their own agenda. The FiA should be above that and should continue in the role of governing global motor sports.
Last edited by mx_tifoso on Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: replaced wall of text with link to it. please don't quote a million paragraphs
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:22 pm

Yeah and Mosley being a well educated senior adult should be above creating havoc to further his own vendettas and agendas. But he ain't.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:43 pm

WhiteBlue wrote:
Giblet wrote:
ecapox wrote:6. Questions arise about Max's real power since Max wanted Ferrari to lose everything because of the team orders, but nothing happened. This questions if Max's cronies really are with him or not.

I think this is simply that the World Motorsport Council is not the FIA, and he has no power but the power to suggest what he thinks.
It's like a lawyer suggesting a punishment to the judge.

Every chief executive picks his own people and executes his own style. To construe a big conflict between Mosley and Todt is not very credible. The main issue here is that the FiA continues as the governing body of motor sport and remains in control of the big policy issues of F1 like success, cost control, viability, energy efficiency and diversity of teams and manufacturers. I believe that this weeks rumors are just another exercise in weakening the powers of the federation that will quickly be forgotten.


This all sounds like some people are trying to leak internals to the press to further their own agenda. The FiA should be above that and should continue in the role of governing global motor sports.

So you believe that the emails quoted are all false? These prove that it is far more than "rumour". before passing premature judgment on the issue, perhaps you should wait to see what happens at the November meeting of the FIA.
gilgen
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2010

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