Transmission Idea

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.

Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:29 pm

I've recently come up with an interesting idea for the gearbox. I'll try to get the drawing I made on the site, but I don't know how. I'll try to describe it. It has two stepped hollow cones(black) with hollow bearings(brown) on the inside. Along the outside of the cones are the gears, one cone with fixed gears(Green), the other with sliding gears(red) that are selected by a simple slider(yellow). The inside of the cones have vanes on them, doubling as a pump for the atf fluid. The fluid flows thru the hollow bearings and thru holes beneath the gears and thru a filter(blue) if needed.

I'm just wondering if this could be made into a practical transmission. The pic really helps, I'll keep tring to get it to work.
"Those who dance are often thought mad by those who cannot hear the music."

"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything."
C09
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2011

Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:21 am

C09, to get a picture post to work, follow these steps.

First, go to the website http://imageshack.us or any other free hosting site.

When that is done, it will show you the picture, and a series of links on the left hand side that point to your picture. Each one of these is a slightly different format.

You want to highlight the link that is referred to as "Direct Link".

The link will look like this with a different filename and such, but the format should be the same.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2161 ... rkedgr.jpg

At this point, you want to paste the link directly into the message you are typing, but nobody will be able to see the picture, they would have to click the link to see it, so after you have the text pasted in your message, highlight it with your mouse or keyboard.

Once it's higlighted, go ahead and click on the "Img" at the top of the message you are writing, and it will frame the link with the words "img" and "/img" but they will be in square brackets.

that will turn the text link into a pic like this:

Image

And that should just about do it. Go ahead and try here. Your transmission concept sounds eerily familiar to another fella's on here, named Autogyro.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Giblet wrote:C09, to get a picture post to work, follow these steps.

First, go to the website http://imageshack.us or any other free hosting site.

When that is done, it will show you the picture, and a series of links on the left hand side that point to your picture. Each one of these is a slightly different format.

You want to highlight the link that is referred to as "Direct Link".

The link will look like this with a different filename and such, but the format should be the same.

Image
At this point, you want to paste the link directly into the message you are typing, but nobody will be able to see the picture, they would have to click the link to see it, so after you have the text pasted in your message, highlight it with your mouse or keyboard.

Once it's higlighted, go ahead and click on the "Img" at the top of the message you are writing, and it will frame the link with the words "img" and "/img" but they will be in square brackets.

that will turn the text link into a pic like this:

Image

And that should just about do it. Go ahead and try here. Your transmission concept sounds eerily familiar to another fella's on here, named Autogyro.

Image
Like that Giblet and no it is nothing like my system but good luck anyway.
autogyro
 
Joined: 4 Oct 2009

Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:14 pm

Autogyro, the image you posted is not visible. As they say, 'Irony is humour with the volume cranked up'.

This is a better image, I think (it also includes a link) :

Image
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:24 pm

Unfortunately my posting priveleges have been revoked Ciro.
Best I could do, sorry.

Oh go on then.

Image
autogyro
 
Joined: 4 Oct 2009

Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:10 pm

I think it's the image... Proof: click on this link. At least it doesn't appear in my browser.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7932 ... ic03bw.jpg
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:44 am

autogyro,

How many forward speeds and how many reverse speeds does that thing have?
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"
riff_raff
 
Joined: 24 Dec 2004

Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:06 pm

Autogyro's transmission uses planetary gears. Mine uses two hollow cones and sliding gears. I'll try Image shack, but no promises with websense and all that.
"Those who dance are often thought mad by those who cannot hear the music."

"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything."
C09
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2011

Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:06 pm

C09 wrote:Autogyro's transmission uses planetary gears. Mine uses two hollow cones and sliding gears. I'll try Image shack, but no promises with websense and all that.


If you have no joy there, you might want to try some others. I've used Flickr in the past and that seems to work like a charm.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:03 pm

I still have the image, but I keep forgetting about it. I can't post from school, websense blocks me from posting anything, and I never remember when I get home. BTW, it has six forward gears and one reverse, common and simple. Similar to a dog gear tranny, but with hollow cones that circulate the atf using the already-there friction of the moving parts. Heck, if it's designed right, the filter could rest IN the hollow cone, further freeing up space.

Just pondering out loud... Do F1 cars have pumps in their trannys? Hmmm, I think F1 might even have a atf cooler, a small radiator. That might still be external and neccessary. I'll think on it... ribbing on the side of the casing, heat dispersion? Oh :!: :idea: hollow walls of the tranny housing, air flows through, expaned material would have greater strength, similar to the structure of the c/f al honeycomb pod. Have a triangular structure between inner/outer tranny walls, aluminum/titanium good conducters, good heat transfer, while adding structural strength because of expaned and stiffened walls.

Anyone lost? :wink: Should I try to put it in laymans terms?
"Those who dance are often thought mad by those who cannot hear the music."

"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything."
C09
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2011

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:31 pm

autogyro wrote:Unfortunately my posting priveleges have been revoked Ciro.
Best I could do, sorry.

Oh go on then.

Image


Is this a drawing of the (in?)famous autogyro transmission? After a year or two of just words he actually posts some kind of drawing and we are not discussing it??

Actually, why is autogyro not describing it? Please say something to complement the picture, some description of how it changes gears. Reply in the "autogyro transmission" thread. I didn't see this image in that thread.

What do you mean priviledges revoked? How are you still posting?

By the way, C09, still looking forward to a drawing of your idea.
bill shoe
 
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:07 pm

Thanks, bill shoe. If it weren´t for your post I wouldn't have noticed the picture. Last time I entered this thread, I couldn't see it in my browser.

Well, if it´s a regular epicyclic, what I see is number 19 as the planet gear axle, which should be connected to the planet gear carrier (which I suppose are the black vertical lines in the lateral view).

This moves the planet gears, which in turn move the sun gear (at the center of the planet gears, of course), and then you get the power back toward the wheels through the sun gear axle (number 18)... or that it would be if it were a regular epicyclic gearbox.

Now, those funny pins (number 13) could engage/disengage the rings between them OR the planetary carriers from the rings AND the sun axle from the sun gear. How do you move those pins, beats me. The strange pins on top (in the air?) of the rings also are mystifying.

I don´t get it. I also do not get the privileges revoked thing.

C09, send me the picture as an attachment to ciroa at lycos dot com and I'll publish it.
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:09 pm

Yes - After Autogyro posted the illustration of his transmission. I was hoping he could explain/comment on his design. I'll take this opportunity to encourage our moderators to reinstate his posting priveleges, at the very least, on this thread. I am also concerned about the duration period and terms restricting his participation on the forum.
Carlos
 
Joined: 2 Sep 2006
Location: Canada

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:00 am

Ciro,

autogyro's transmission (as shown) has 13 forward speeds. The 6 epicyclics each have 2 possible outputs (sun gear input/carrier output/fixed ring or sun gear input/carrier fixed/ring gear output), which gives 12 total gear ratios. Plus locking an epicyclic stage gives an additional 1:1 ratio.

The shear pins that lock the carrier or ring gear to the output shaft are likely hydraulically actuated. But one big problem with the transmission as shown is that there is no synchronizing device in the system. To get this system to work it would need dual inputs, like a DSG uses. Otherwise those stage locking pins would just get hammered at each shift. Unlike a conventional constant mesh manual trans, where the unloaded gear sets are always turning, it looks like the unloaded epicyclic stages (ie. freewheeling ring and carrier) here would slow to a very low speed. Or only as fast as the friction and viscous drags turn them.

While I appreciate that the picture autogyro posted is mostly conceptual, it also conveniently leaves out lots of critical components such as bearings, splines and hydraulic circuits.

Just my opinion.
riff_raff
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"
riff_raff
 
Joined: 24 Dec 2004

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:02 am

Thanks, riff_raff, that's what I thought, more or less, but I discarded the idea.

Unless you have some additional explanation, the pins won't last. Unless you "click" them somehow while the planetary is still not loaded... It could use some kind of sequence for "loading" them, maybe. I don't think anybody is stupider than me (that would be a record!), so perhaps... What if you use viscosity to accelerate the rings until they click, instead of using this viscosity only for propulsion, like it happens in a regular hydraulic transmission? What do you think?

Anyway, unless Carlos convinces Dave (they´re Canadians, who knows) we won't have a chance to confront your superior skill for analysis with autogyro's ability for explanations... I was dying for that one.

BTW, Bill, when you revoke someone ability to post, you give him some notice (believe me, I know), so I think that's the reason for autogyro being able to post about it before losing the rights. Man, people has become intolerant with excentrics. I might be the next one... 8)
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

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