P.U.R.E Appointment

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.

Post Fri May 06, 2011 5:15 am

FOTA's agreement is not necessary for a new engine formula.

Should FOTA vote, only a (75%?) majority vote is needed anyway. Ferrari & Mercedes are outnumbered & outvoted.


Of the 12 teams, 10 will purchase engines anyway, so the cyclinder configuration does not affect their marketing purposes (with offerings from Cosworth, PURE & Renault Sport F1 at the very least).

This is why PURE already has the public backing of not only the FIA & Todt, but even of Ecclestone who is opposed to the inline 4!
Any post(s) made by this user are (semi-)educated opinion(s), based on random fact(s) blurred by the smudges of time.
Any fact(s) claimed by this user will be supplemented by a link to the original source of said fact(s).
Fil
 
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Post Fri May 06, 2011 6:12 am

Interesting. Apparently a good (or bad) name can do wonders. Because of this fashionable ecoBS word-acronym name I actually though they were circus clowns and didn't even bother to read the details at first. They could make it worse, you know, like calling it iPURE. :)
Image
Pandamasque
 
Joined: 9 Nov 2009
Location: Ukraine

Post Fri May 06, 2011 11:43 am

Rob01 wrote:The majors are not going to put up with a saloon engine.


What about hatchback engines? :shock: :mrgreen:

Seriously, quit calling them saloon engines, they are nothing to do with saloons.
Yer.
Hangaku
 
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Location: Manchester, UK

Post Fri May 06, 2011 6:09 pm

Rob01 wrote:He is burning money for no purpose as we speak. FOTA is not going to agree to the new engine formula. The majors are not going to put up with a saloon engine. If for some reason it happens, Formula One should lose it's F1 designation.

I think actually, you'd be surprised.

Ferrari clearly don't want the I4 rules
Merc are hard to predict – they use I4s in some road cars, though admitedly it's not their primary market. They have been big on the hybrid idea though, so KERS boosted I4 may appeal to their marketting.
Renault will see this as an opportunity to push the type of engine they do well.
Coswerth would likely swing any way they like.

So that's the engine makers, now the teams.
Ferrari would clearly back the car maker's interests
McLaren probably don't care, given that they'll be moving to McLaren engines in 2015 anyway – they'll be able to design anything they like.
Red Bull will support it, given that Renault will
Merc will follow the car maker's lead
Renault will support it
Force India will likely follow Merc's lead again
Toro Rosso & Sauber will likely see it as an oportunity for more engine makers to join the fray, and to get something better than Ferrari's broken offcasts (remember last year when Ferrari got to change their engine for 'reliability reasons', and Sauber got left with the horribly unreliable engine)
All the back markers stuck with coswerth at the moment are likely to support it, given that engine and gearbox is one of their biggest handicaps at the moment.

So basically, it's likely that all but 1 teams would support the move, and even if merc were to oppose it, that's only 3 of the teams, and 2 of the 5 majors.
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Sat May 07, 2011 12:34 am

Rob01 wrote:FOTA is not going to agree to the new engine formula. The majors are not going to put up with a saloon engine. If for some reason it happens, Formula One should lose it's F1 designation.


This is a very strange statement considering that the decision for the 2013 engines has been made in December 2010 by the F1 Commission which is essentially manned by the teams.

Why should the teams vote any different five months later? The public opposition by Ecclestone and Ferrari creates the wrong impression for the fans that the decision will be reversed. In reality the chance for this to happen is minute. The team majority primarily wants affordable engines which will be guaranteed by the new engines. There will be more engine suppliers which will drive the price down.

Pure is only the tip of the iceberg. There will be other new engine suppliers and I expect all top five teams to either have their own engines or drive as works teams for an engine supplier. With a new spec there is a big incentive to enter F1 for engine suppliers because the playing field is level for all competitors.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Sat May 07, 2011 3:38 am

The engines has just a little to do with what is actually going on in F1. The main fight is for control of the sport. The teams are going to gain the proper control of the sport or move the show elsewhere. Ferrari said after last Concorde if the governance of the sport didn't change they would leave. The FIA has taken liberties handed down from the Max era to dictate rules. The teams are to make the rules and the FIA are to write and enforce them. And the teams want a bigger piece of the pie and a commercial side without a hundred year deal taking out 600M a year and making no real investment back into the sport. Reversing the engine formula is telling/showing that the teams will make that call. So people already building engines are doing no more than lining up like the bottom tier of F1 did for Max.
Rob01
 
Joined: 26 May 2010

Post Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:17 pm

Taken from SPEEDTV:

Renault engine chief Rob White has confirmed that he’s uncomfortable with Gilles Simon’s move from being the FIA’s engine man to working for the new P.U.R.E, organization.

Simon was at the heart of discussions over the 2014 turbo rules – with access to inside information from rival manufacturers – and yet will start work as technical director with Craig Pollock’s company on Monday.

“First reactions are fairly predictable and understandable from my part,” said White. “On a personal and professional level, we’ve had good relations with Gilles for a long time in his present – for a couple more days – job, and in his previous job at Ferrari.

“Of course, it’s of concern to all of us that in this close relationship with Gilles and the FIA over the past year, 18 months, that we’ve given unprecedented access to Gilles – we certainly have at Renault and I believe all of the engine companies have done so, particularly in respect of the state of progress in our respective engine development programs alongside the rules package.

“And so, of course, we would be most concerned to be reassured that information to which Gilles has had access to in those very privileged circumstances as a representative of the FIA is not used in his new capacity as an employee of a competitor.”

Asked if he felt that that such a situation shouldn’t be allowed to happen, White said: “It’s a very complicated sport. In order that the technical and sporting regulations can be administered successfully, then we require the governing body to have good people and they probably require to have access to the teams, and therefore there’s an obvious risk that needs to be managed, if the same people can crop up in a different shirt very shortly afterwards.”
Gatecrasher
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:35 pm

what a deal...but couldn´t Pollock and Simon imagine before that this will not go down easily with the engine manufacturers?
How can FIA have not a contract with him keeping him away from designing f1 engines? Luckily it´s still some time before these engines come into play...
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:00 am

So, with knowledge from all current engine builders, he is involved in crafting the new set of rules, and then moves to a new company to create a new engine to suit his rules. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Smells very fishy!!
Robert.Gardner
 
Joined: 28 Jul 2011

Post Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:03 am

Robert.Gardner wrote:So, with knowledge from all current engine builders, he is involved in crafting the new set of rules, and then moves to a new company to create a new engine to suit his rules. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Smells very fishy!!



Stinks like Grimsby...but is a coup for PURE =D>
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM
CMSMJ1
 
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom

Post Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:03 am

Simon should have to take a "gardening leave."

Please repeat after me: "It's not a sport; it's a business."
"It's not a sport; it's a business."
"It's not a sport; it's a business."
"It's not a sport; it's a business."
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:12 am

Can only imagine that if PURES Qc and manufacturing is top class along with a nice budget, it's engines maybe a force to be reckoned with. I see a vast amount of material and process improvements before the engines go into being made as companies experiment with turbo technology though. So they could get caught out copying or using others ideas (not saying they will) while the big manufactures move on in development.

But I agree, the FIA should have a contract or generous garden leave clause.
Richied76
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2010

Post Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:42 am

Mr. White and Renault are always free to lease engines from PURE if they feel that PURE has some decided advantage.

F1 is a political game, and like chess, it favors those that think ahead and act strategically. These guys like Rob White need to learn to quit whining in public, and to take actions quietly, so that no one knows what they are doing.

Just smile and nod your head Rob.
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"
riff_raff
 
Joined: 24 Dec 2004

Post Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:00 pm

I for one never thougt that P.U.R.E was for real, where do they have their office and shop?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:48 pm

xpensive wrote:I for one never thougt that P.U.R.E was for real, where do they have their office and shop?

http://www.teos-engineering.com/

Personally I think more important is who's working for them.
noname
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Location: EU

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