Delta wing car concept

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...

Post Mon May 16, 2011 1:21 pm

RabMcH wrote:
under the Luigi Colani's C-Form, Deltawing is better than this thing[/quote]

Define "better".[/quote]
the shape & the linellae is coordinate and coherent, comfortable to see, the air can flow the solid very smooth
Scania
 
Joined: 26 Nov 2008

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:54 pm

DeltaWing to race at Le Mans 24h 2012 :shock:
dailysportscar.com
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Pandamasque
 
Joined: 9 Nov 2009
Location: Ukraine

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:14 pm

This is a car in the way this is a motorcycle.

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Why should something that barely has 4 wheels and a wheelbase unlike anything else be allowed to be called a car.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:18 pm

Wow! ACO continues to impress. I look forward to this experiment.

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Last edited by Formula None on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Formula None
 
Joined: 17 Nov 2010

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:33 pm

I dont even understand how that can be serious at all? Doesnt even look like car, autosport is done with a car, not with taxiing fighter jets
wesley123
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2008

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:34 pm

I'd have thought that configuration only suitable for drag strips.

Here's an early prototype demonstrating the inherent stability issues ...

richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:43 pm

hmm, is there really enough space in the front to get all the necessary gear for:

1) tyres that are wide enough to give you sane grip levels
2) mechanics for suspension and steering

It looks pretty tight, to my untrained eye..
tommylommykins
 
Joined: 12 May 2009

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:50 pm

The idea is that this is a very lightweight car, plus most the weight is at the back, hence the front wheels can be more like a road car width.

In terms of mecahnics, there is a lot more room in there than the nose of an F1 car.
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:12 pm

The only reason Highcroft runs those is probably to get some cash on their accounts and keep existing. They withdrawed their Acura efford due to lack of funding.
wesley123
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2008

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:28 pm

Personally, I hope they dominate.

Everyone had their doubts about the funny little rear engined cars that John Cooper entered into F1 alongside the traditional front engined cars, but look where that ended up ... people are always reluctant to adapt to a new form factor or engineering methodology (Carbon Fibre chassis were originally written off as fragile and dangerous) but sometimes these oddball technologies become an epoch-changing development.

I wish them all the best at Le Mans, but I doubt they'll live up to my hopes.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."
gridwalker
 
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:15 pm

richard_leeds wrote:The idea is that this is a very lightweight car, plus most the weight is at the back, hence the front wheels can be more like a road car width.

In terms of mecahnics, there is a lot more room in there than the nose of an F1 car.


Weight distribution seems to be the most interesting aspect.

• Transmission is a 5 speed plus reverse longitudinal design with electrical sequential paddle shift actuation. The differential features an efficient variable torque steer/differential speed-controlled planetary final drive reduction layout with the entire transmission weighing only 33kg.

• Vehicle weight distribution is necessarily more rearward than traditionally seen with 72.5% of the mass between the wide track larger rear tires.

• 76% of the aerodynamic downforce acts on the rear of the car which has a lift to drag ratio of >5.0.

• Rear wheel drive coupled with the rearward weight and aerodynamic distributions greatly enhances inline acceleration capability.

• Unique amongst today’s racing cars, more than 50% of the vehicle’s braking force is generated behind the center of gravity giving a dynamically stable response.

• Locking propensity of the un-laden front wheel at corner entry is greatly reduced due to virtually no lateral load transfer with the narrow front track/wide rear track layout, steered wheel “scrub drag” moment is virtually zero greatly increasing tire utilization and reducing mid turn understeer.


The unregulated active rear diff might be a big advantage for them. I didn't see mention of minimum weight spec for this entrant, that could also be an edge for tire wear. Roll still concerns me, but if all the weight is at the rear, and at a much lower height than say a Reliant Robin, then perhaps its not a big issue.

gridwalker wrote:Personally, I hope they dominate.

Everyone had their doubts about the funny little rear engined cars that John Cooper entered into F1 alongside the traditional front engined cars, but look where that ended up ... people are always reluctant to adapt to a new form factor or engineering methodology (Carbon Fibre chassis were originally written off as fragile and dangerous) but sometimes these oddball technologies become an epoch-changing development.

I wish them all the best at Le Mans, but I doubt they'll live up to my hopes.


Agree, I wish them the best as well. I continue hoping for a racing series where this sort of exploration is encouraged.

I'd like to see the same concept implemented as a reverse-trike FWD with a forward weight distribution. Could be interesting, like that old 6-wheel 70's wing car sportscar concept that I can't remember the name of at the moment.
Last edited by Formula None on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Formula None
 
Joined: 17 Nov 2010

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:17 pm

The thing about majority of braking force coming from rear wheels being inherently stable is a load of BS.. as are many things in the DW design IMO.
Grip is a four letter word.

2 is the new #1.
Jersey Tom
 
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:21 pm

Jersey Tom wrote:The thing about majority of braking force coming from rear wheels being inherently stable is a load of BS.. as are many things in the DW design IMO.


The problem being if the braking force is not being constantly adjusted from RR/RL, you lose stability. Is that what you're getting at? You end up steering the car with the rear wheels through braking and the active diff. Sounds complicated.
Formula None
 
Joined: 17 Nov 2010

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:54 pm

Their claim from ages ago, diff aside even, is that braking coming for the most part from the rear wheels gives some inherent stability. I suspect, they came to this conclusion from the lateral offset of longitudinal axle forces (from body sideslip) and some resulting restoring moment from those longitudinal forces.

However, braking stability is about lateral forces, not longitudinal.
Grip is a four letter word.

2 is the new #1.
Jersey Tom
 
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:42 pm

Jersey Tom wrote:Their claim from ages ago, diff aside even, is that braking coming for the most part from the rear wheels gives some inherent stability. I suspect, they came to this conclusion from the lateral offset of longitudinal axle forces (from body sideslip) and some resulting restoring moment from those longitudinal forces.

However, braking stability is about lateral forces, not longitudinal.

I agree braking stability is dominated by lateral rather than longitudinal forces, but I think the extreme rear weight bias on the DW does create an interesting longitudinal situation that is worth understanding.

The worst case scenario for longitudinal braking stability is front wheels at max braking mu (a few % slip) and the rear wheels locked up and therefore at a lower sliding mu. If the DW static rear weight bias was large enough then this worst case scenario would still have more than 50% of longitudinal braking force coming from behind the CG. Therefore longitudinal forces would have a stabilizing influence.

The reality is that track surface disturbances and non-straight-line braking will still bring out the lateral-force instability. However, the DW longitudinal forces would take away from these effects instead of adding to them like on a conventional car. It would be interesting to feel the difference at the initial instant of transition into rotation.

Come to think of it, whoever gets the LeMans DW ride will have the best development job in racing. I don't think the DW is a useful way to address high costs (its original reason for existing) but it is undeniably an interesting development excercise.
bill shoe
 
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

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