Sensors on uprights

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hardingfv32
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Sensors on uprights

Postby hardingfv32 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:40 pm

I am trying to catalog the possible sensor found on a F1 upright. Any photo of a F1 front upright with shielding and ducting removed shows a part completely covered with electronics and wiring.

My first search turned up the wheel sensor for Kistler for F1. I think I appreciate what measurements are being made, but why in the wheel vs on the hub? What would be the subtle differences that made them go to the trouble of a wheel installation?

http://www.kistler.com/LI_en-ch/13_Prod ... inder.html

Brian

hardingfv32
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Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby hardingfv32 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:24 pm

This is interesting. When you see all those mounted tires and wheel sets behind the team haulers in photos, they actually be monitored individually.

http://www.bf1systems.com/products/tpms/TPMSGarage.html

Brian

747heavy
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Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby 747heavy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:49 pm

hardingfv32 wrote:I am trying to catalog the possible sensor found on a F1 upright. Any photo of a F1 front upright with shielding and ducting removed shows a part completely covered with electronics and wiring.

My first search turned up the wheel sensor for Kistler for F1. I think I appreciate what measurements are being made, but why in the wheel vs on the hub? What would be the subtle differences that made them go to the trouble of a wheel installation?

http://www.kistler.com/LI_en-ch/13_Prod ... inder.html

Brian


the Kistler wheel (rim)is mainly used for tire testing and/or to measure "Grip".
(forces at the road/tire interface)
I simple terms it measures the forces between the outer rim part and the hub. Similar in principle to measure stress/strain/tension in the spokes of a wire wheel and calculate the forces on the tire in three dimensions from it.

some of the sensors you will find on an upright will/can be: wheelspeed, vertical acceleration of the upright, brake fluid pressure, brake fluid temp, brake pad wear (displacement of the pistons in the caliper), brake disk temperatur.
In some cases (during testing) distance of the upright to the ground, to determine tire deflection/squash
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

riff_raff
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby riff_raff » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:50 am

hardingfv32,

The various sensors on an F1 upright would depend upon whether the car was testing or racing. I believe the rules limit what active instrumentation/data acquisition can be used in a race. But there is no limit on passive techniques, such as temperature indicating paints.

During testing however, I would imagine that there might be all sorts of instrumentation on the upright. Thermocouples, strain gauges, accelerometers, LVDT or proximity sensors, dynamic air pressure transducers, brake fluid pressure transducers, hall effect sensors, etc.

In the current high-tech world of F1, where the teams use very powerful digital design and simulation tools, the main purpose for testing is to gather data to validate/refine their analytical models. Analysis techniques for things like metal structures are very well understood and easily characterized. Analysis for dynamics or non-linear structures is less straightforward. So calibrating these analytical models by test is very important.

Putting sensors on the upright is usually less complicated than putting sensors on the rotating components such as the wheel or stub axle. The sensors on the rotating components would need to be more rugged, and would need some method of transmitting data at high frequency such as a slip ring or wireless RF.
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

scarbs
298
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby scarbs » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:23 pm

On each upright you will typically see these sensors...

Brake wear sensors x2 (Inner and outer)
Brake temp sensor
Wheelspeed
Suspension (pushrod) load cell

hardingfv32
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby hardingfv32 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:56 pm

A lot of the photos seem to be showing something that looks like a junction box mounted to the upright. Are the teams using fiber optics or a CANBus?

Brian

747heavy
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Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby 747heavy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:59 pm

yes 2-wire CAN bus as far as the hub interfaces go

http://www.mclarenelectronics.com/Produ ... _HIU-3.asp

Image
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

hardingfv32
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby hardingfv32 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:18 pm

That is pretty definitive and feathers nicely into Scarbs sensor list.

Thanks
Brian

scarbs
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Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby scarbs » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:18 pm

747 Heavy,
Thanks for the hub interface link, that'll go nicely with a F1 wiring blog post I'm compiling...

Scarbs

747heavy
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Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby 747heavy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:33 pm

scarbs wrote:747 Heavy,
Thanks for the hub interface link, that'll go nicely with a F1 wiring blog post I'm compiling...

Scarbs


You are welcome Scarbs,

did you had something like this in mind?

Image
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

hardingfv32
21
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby hardingfv32 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:23 am

Can we add hubs for the engine controls & sensors, transmission, hydraulic system & Moog units, steering system, etc.?

Brian

scarbs
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby scarbs » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:05 am

747heavy wrote:
scarbs wrote:747 Heavy,
Thanks for the hub interface link, that'll go nicely with a F1 wiring blog post I'm compiling...

Scarbs


You are welcome Scarbs,

did you had something like this in mind?


thats useful, I've got something slightly more detailed in mind. watch this space.

Krispy
0
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:40 pm
Location: Auburn, AL

Re: Sensors on uprights

Postby Krispy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:43 pm

"In" for info Craig!
"In order to finish first, you must first finish"-Stirling Moss




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