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[manchild]

Can someone translate this from Hungarian?



It belongs in this thread but I have no clue what it is about

[miqi23]

I think its something about the power steering system of an F1 car,,

[manchild]

I think its something about the power steering system of an F1 car,,

Why would it mention "20 liter" and "ECU" than?

[zac510]

Steering the back wheels? That'd be fun

Looks like the motor/generator might be referring to an alternator. But the 20 litre bit doesn't make sense.

20 litre could mean compressed air that services the pneumatic valve springs.

Either way it all looks a bit fake, the drawings don't look like real data loggers, ecu, etc.

[Ciro Pabón]

I think this is the "famous" peak power electrical acumulator I have read about that is (I believe) proposed for 2008. How I read it is (please, take in account that my hungarian is a little bit rusty, and that it will improve once I learn it!):

1. A generator conected to the engine generates electrical energy (duhh!).

2. Somehow, the ECU checks how much of this energy can be stored without fusing the storage system. I would guess it also checks that you do not need this extra power (in the thight hairpin? or in the tight chicane? or in the narrow track? you have plenty of possibilities nowadays...), right when your car is the fastest truck in the track because is loaded with fuel.

3. The energy is stored in an ultracapacitor (a condensator or capacitor made of carbon nanotubes). Yes, there are ultracapacitors (or pseudo capacitors or double layer capacitors or super capacitors, whew!) proposed for hybrid cars: http://powerelectronics.com/mag/power_ultracapacitor_technology_powers/index.html. They have more virtues than Christ himself if you believe your googling.

4. The energy stored is passed through the gadget in frame four and, I am really confused here, somehow passed to the power train. I would think this involves passing the electricity in reverse through the generator, but I do not know.

5. You get a new button in your cramped steering wheel (or probably you replace the engine power regulator) that gives you a few Kilowatts (the specifications are given in kilowatts if I do remember correctly) when you need to pass Schumi (go Juan Pablo!) or, maybe, if you want to push Albers into the dust.

All this are guessings, my dear Manchild. You can use http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=Hungarian&to=English if you need to check my guessings (even if all you already know I do not make mistakes, ever).

I read something in the new proposed rules, where there were specifications for peak power (in Kilowatts) and maximum number of times you could hit the "electro-turbo". All this convolutions should give us more overtaking.

Next time I suggest to widen the track instead, I hope to have more receptive ears. But I guess you mechanical nerds will be happy with it.

This, or is a system to give electric jolts to the pilot when it does not take in account the team orders (hey! we have an idea here... Flavio would like it).

[mech_coen]

hehe thanks, now we know what we wanted to know, fifa la freetranslation.com!

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, I am not translating, I am guessing. Or divining, I do not know. By the way, taking a second look, probably the gadget in frame 2 is an AC/DC converter (why would it have cooling fins if is an ECU? because they use a Pentium instead of an AMD?), because the thingy in frame 1 is probably an alternator.

I would say this gadget gives you wider berth: instead of mumbling about graining tires, you could say "we were two seconds slower than the rest of the field because we were charging the ultracapacitor". This could be a surefire way to shut up those annoying journalists.

Besides, you could give more profound speculations after the race: "we have less fuel, but we had the ultracapacitor heavy with electrons, that is why we pitted in lap 12", "the electrical storm brewing took all the energy away", etcetera. Possibilities are endless.

Oh, my God, how I will be ashamed if all of this is bull****!

[manchild]

...4. The energy stored is passed through the gadget in frame four and, I am really confused here, somehow passed to the power train. I would think this involves passing the electricity in reverse through the generator, but I do not know...

Thanks Ciro!

I had no idea that there is translator from Hungarian

That 4th thing... can it be that it refeers to alternator that works as alternator during normal drive and as el.motor under braking? Renault has patented similar alternator for passenger cars. It is located behind clutch I think and has dual function - generates electricity when engine is running and acts like starter when engine is being started.

[Ciro Pabón]

On a third look (slow digitizing afternoon): the number 4 says "clearly" ECU szofvarte, which I risk to translate as ECU software.

Then you have the always important "teljésitmeny szabályzó" in number 2, wich the useful link I gave you translate as "teljesitmeny statutes", also "clearly" marked as an motor/generátor, which my awesome hungarian translation abilities converts to motor/generator. So I would interchange the numbers 2 and 4 in the explanation I gave.

This gadget is a good start for the crucial issue of electric cars: energy density of batteries vs gasoline.

[luisandregg]

Well, I am not translating, I am guessing. Or divining, I do not know. By the way, taking a second look, probably the gadget in frame 2 is an AC/DC converter (why would it have cooling fins if is an ECU? because they use a Pentium instead of an AMD?), because the thingy in frame 1 is probably an alternator.

Actually, I think that the gadget in frame 2 is a DC/DC converter (I think it’s called “chopper” in English, it’s “hacheur” in French). That converter modules the mean voltage that passes through: it “opens and closes” the circuit in order to “cut” the voltage during a period of time and reduces the final mean voltage on the accumulator.

But why should it do that? Because the voltage created by the alternator depends on the rotational speed of the engine (and of the alternator itself). So the “chopper” should modulate this instable voltage in order to keep the voltage on the capacitors constant and stable.

And the fins are there because the “chopper” is made of various transistors that “open and close” quite few times a second and it generates heat.

If you have some information about that, tell us!

[luisandregg]

Here's a graphic of the converter's action.

[DaveKillens]

It appears to be old idea of a "push to pass' button. This is supposed to meter out extra drivetrain energy when the driver pushes the button. CART uses it, based on accumulated time. They can use a total of 90 seconds a race. Or since this system seems based on a generator powering up capacitors, time has to elapse before the push to pass button is used agan. Maybe it would take two, three minutes to recharge the capacitors. The technology is there, and it would add an extra element of spice to the racing.

[Mikey_s]

Just adding in my 2 cents;

Unless the hungarians have found a way around the first law of thermodynamics the power for the generator should come from the braking of the vehicle not the engine - otherwise there is no point. The energy to be stored wouold need to come from the engine (energy can neither be created or destroyed) so what you would gain from the push to pass system would have been taken away from the engine earlier. Much more sensible to find a way to capture some of the kinetic energy from the car as it slows down - so it's not exactly free, but al least you paid for it earlier without sapping the power used to build up the kinetic energy (i.e. speed...).

I guess that's why they show the brakes discs glowing!

P.S. love your sense of humour Ciro!

[manchild]

I still think since under 1 it says motor/generator it is basically dual function generator that acts as generator under braking and as motor when additional power is needed.

Anyway, I think that is either FIA or Allianz drawing with only text being changed to Hungarian.

[Ciro Pabón]

I still think since under 1 it says motor/generator it is basically dual function generator that acts as generator under braking and as motor when additional power is needed.

Anyway, I think that is either FIA or Allianz drawing with only text being changed to Hungarian.

I agree, Manchild. I think that Mikey wants to say that you can connect it to the engine or the brakes, even if he got wrong the law of energy and mass conservation. Probably the engine is an easier one and this is no regenerative-braking. After all, the cars seem to be anything but fuel efficient! What is it? 2 or 3 km/lt? No help on global warming from F1...

Hey, this is another idea... what about restricting the fuel rate instead of the displacement of the engine? Always thinking about driving finesse and energy efficiency, I guess.

But, what if we take the idea further and ask for, I do not know, 20% of the power to come from regeneration? This would be a big boost to this field of research and a nice F1 press oportunity. "We do care, blah, blah... nanotubes, blah, blah... cleaner planet, blah, blah..." It would change Brembo forever... And all ballast would be replaced by ultracapacitors. (Another idea: why don't they use this already to have longer stints? Imagine the commotion... does it break the rules? I think they only limit your fuel. You could even "refuel" it by radio frequency... My Gosh, how naive can they be? They do not live in Colombia, I guess. )

This way, maybe, maybe, Ferrari would develop the next century engine once they discover something better (remember Tesla and Marconi, they seem good at it). This surely would make F1 the ruler of all series... let's really talk about leading edge research.

Then Mikey's idea would be logical. Imagine: what better place to put it that right ON the brakes where is easier to put energy back unto the wheel? Even traction control would be feasible, he, he, he. We would make Renault eat some dust at the starting grids, folks, with our incredibly clever magnetic starter-enhancer. You would need magnetic braking/regenerating disks, of course. Hey, this is a better basic design than the one in the drawing you showed us, even if, probably, it screws the unsprung mass... but I am being carried away.

mmmmm... now I see why they introduced it. They want to take us there step by step. Max Mosley could have good assistants. Damn!

As an afterthought, now I see that Max is the only guy in the planet that can make rules for a regenerative system that actually wastes energy... Good irony for another post, I guess, but I'll make a note of it.

Thanks, guys, now I have some crazy ideas for the F1 car being designed in this forum!