Future of Cosworth

[Scorpaguy]

Anyone have ideas on how many teams Cosworth needs to retain in order to be lucrative? With the exit of Williams...this isn't a case of "rats jumping a sinking ship" is it? I know they havent been up to speed as yet...but how much of that is chasis/aero and not the fault of Cosworth? I for one would like to see them stay...but I wonder just how long they can hang on...esp. with the new specs.

[n smikle]

Cosworth - Virgin racing and HRT only?

OR they could sit it out until 2014. They are very good with turbos.

[Holm86]

Cosworth - Virgin racing and HRT only?

OR they could sit it out until 2014. They are very good with turbos.

Quite ironic since Cosworth didnt like the turbo motors when they were first introduced in formula one

[agip]

Quite ironic since Cosworth didnt like the turbo motors when they were first introduced in formula one

That's true.

[Jersey Tom]

This makes me wonder what teams get to know before they commit to a engine supplier - what helps them make the decision. Do the get any dyno or engineering data, anything similar?

[riff_raff]

Anyone have ideas on how many teams Cosworth needs to retain in order to be lucrative? With the exit of Williams...this isn't a case of "rats jumping a sinking ship" is it? I know they havent been up to speed as yet...but how much of that is chasis/aero and not the fault of Cosworth? I for one would like to see them stay...but I wonder just how long they can hang on...esp. with the new specs.

Scorpaguy,

Cosworth is run as a business, not as a sporting endeavor, and they have a fairly diverse range of business interests outside of F1 http://www.cosworth.com/f.ashx?id=64524. If it is not profitable for them to be an F1 engine supplier, then they will no longer pursue that market. Regardless, they've been around for over 40 years and will likely be around for another 40 years.

riff_raff

[hpras]

Quite ironic since Cosworth didnt like the turbo motors when they were first introduced in formula one

That's true.

I love this video, Boffins and craftsmen in tin sheds and a fabulous line, "we don't need any computer aided design, just a calculator." Awesome.

Edit: just watched part 2.... a very young Ross Brawn.

[cossie]

cossie will be fine with the turbo's , if i were Renault and the rest i'd be a wary of cossie due to thier past success with turbo's the 2.65 they ran in CART adn Champcar were fricking bullett proof

[ESPImperium]

Cosworth will be a funny one for the future. They need investment for the V6 power trains, they are starting their own KERS devision next year that will look at and develop for both sporting and non sporting needs. Their V6 will require a simmilar amount of investment to what the Manufacturers are putting in, however could get away with the same as PURE for 2014s power train development, whitch is €8m this, €10.5m next and the following and then €20m plus for 2014, then decreasing to €9m a year there after. So in other words, arround €50m from now untill and including 2014.

This is money that Cosworth may not be able to afford. However they need to get teams involves from 2013 onward, giving them money for the 2013 power plant and then money for the development of a 2014 power train.

One thing that could be going for Cosworth is that they could be taken over by a Manufacturer that wants to go racing as a engine supplier only. And by they, their F1 and partial KERS devisions.

One thing is for sure, Cosworth have a future, but it isnt looking rosey. F1 will have more power train suppliers in 2014, PURE is confirmed and Honda is looking not to mention the posible McLaren/Ricardo tie up as well. As the rumor is that from 2016 or 2018 there will be a rule where a power train supplier can only provide two teams with a power train. This will lead to at least 3 or 4 teams looking for engine provision from then.

I think that the power supply will be this then:

Renault: Red Bull/Team Lotus
Mercedes: Mercedes/Force India
Ferrari: Ferrari/Sauber
McLaren/Ricardo: McLaren/Virgin
Cosworth: Renault*/Hispania (*Team currently named Renault, Chassis change must be done for 2013)
PURE: Toro Rosso/Williams

VW are looking at 2018, GM have been looking at a entry from 2016 onward as Chevrolet and Honda have been looking as well from 2016 onward at the earliest.

Engine supply will change in the future, at present im happy with the V8s.

[cossie]

do not see PURE involved or getting any teams , Pollack has pissed of everyone and every team, and Cosworth rep with builing turbo engines is great,i'd take a cossie turbo engine over a Renault turbo anyday,

[wesley123]

do not see PURE involved or getting any teams , Pollack has pissed of everyone and every team, and Cosworth rep with builing turbo engines is great,i'd take a cossie turbo engine over a Renault turbo anyday,

Yet they never made a F1 Turbo engine, where Renault did

[xpensive]

do not see PURE involved or getting any teams , Pollack has pissed of everyone and every team, and Cosworth rep with builing turbo engines is great,i'd take a cossie turbo engine over a Renault turbo anyday,

Yet they never made a F1 Turbo engine, where Renault did

A) "cossie" should learn to type and spell properly before posting anything more, most annoying to see posts like his.

B) Cosworth built a 120 degree 1.5 V6 called "TEC" during 1986-87 seasons, used by Haas and Benetton I think.

C) Cosworth will surely build a fine 1.6 V6, if they have the money for it, problem will be with the gizmos MGUK and MGUH.

[WhiteBlue]

Cosworth will surely build a fine 1.6 V6, if they have the money for it, problem will be with the gizmos MGUK and MGUH.

I'm not convinced by that theory. The ERS is a fairly simple spec and most power train makers should master it with moderate investment. That is the reason why they went so restrictive in specification.

[wesley123]

do not see PURE involved or getting any teams , Pollack has pissed of everyone and every team, and Cosworth rep with builing turbo engines is great,i'd take a cossie turbo engine over a Renault turbo anyday,

Yet they never made a F1 Turbo engine, where Renault did

B) Cosworth built a 120 degree 1.5 V6 called "TEC" during 1986-87 seasons, used by Haas and Benetton I think.

C) Cosworth will surely build a fine 1.6 V6, if they have the money for it, problem will be with the gizmos MGUK and MGUH.

Made a mistake there, got some intel about it over PB, they indeed made one.

And for the engine, sure they are able to do so. If it will be good? I dont now, they dont got the money to invest millions into something no team will run. We dont know which manufacturers will join the new engine formula. A team will more likely choose for a car manufacturers engine then an manufacturer outside th car business, for example Cosworth or PURE.

For example PURE with Pollock is taking a huge risk, it is likely they will go nowhere in F1, what is pollock going to do then? The investers want their money back and where does that money come from?

[xpensive]

- In a perfect world, Cosworth should find its way back to its liasion with Ford, or someone else, to badge their engines.

- The recovery systems will take some serious investment, 4 MJ, even if some members are beating their own drum about it.

- P.U.R.E. is covered by another thread, but obviously they have a backer yet unknown, though I believe it to be VW.