Rear wing on front wheel drive cars

[Lycoming]

define "fastest production FWD car"

[mx_tifoso]

define "ricer"!

[xpensive]

hello guys,
i wanted to add a rear wing on my Chevy cruze....but the sho guy told me its not going to help in a front wheel driven car!
is it true? as i think no matter where the drives are will it not give aero benefit in a corner?
will it not stabilze my rear end?
or will it give me extra drag and low fuel economy?
Thank you

In order to make your FWD perfectly balanced with the xtra downforce, you might find it worthwhile to rip a page out of Jim Hall's book, again.

http://jayfields.freeserverhost.net/Can ... 07w/43.htm

[Lurk]

@Lycoming : less than 8:08 at the Ring, 14s less than the 2nd best FWD car.

[siskue2005]

hello guys,
i wanted to add a rear wing on my Chevy cruze....but the sho guy told me its not going to help in a front wheel driven car!
is it true? as i think no matter where the drives are will it not give aero benefit in a corner?
will it not stabilze my rear end?
or will it give me extra drag and low fuel economy?
Thank you

In order to make your FWD perfectly balanced with the xtra downforce, you might find it worthwhile to rip a page out of Jim Hall's book, again.

http://jayfields.freeserverhost.net/Can ... 07w/43.htm

[bill shoe]

@Lycoming : less than 8:08 at the Ring, 14s less than the 2nd best FWD car.

This implies the Renault is ~ 1 second per km quicker. This is a moderately small difference. Tire grip makes more difference than that.

Tire grip is largely a function of how much tire wear and rolling resistance the manufacturer is willing to tolerate on that particular car. Subaru or Mazda may fit their hot hatches with relatively ordinary production car tires while Renault fits this “race-only” model with track tires.

Also, the fact that the Renault uses tires with the name “Bridgestone 050?” does not mean those tires have any relationship to other tires with that name (except for tread styling). OE tire fitments are typically custom developments with a familiar name on the sidewall. I don’t know if the Renault tires in question are custom development or if they are actually similar to other tires of the same name that are fitted to other cars.

Anyway, if you want a good production FWD car to go 1 sec/km faster then worry about the tires, not which car you have.

I agree with everyone who says the wing is a functional loser on the street. However, I've also been curious to feel the on-track difference for a car with and without a significant rear wing. It would be interesting to feel the difference (grip, stability?). The wing could be justified out of human curiosity rather than performance vs cost.

[bill shoe]

hello guys,
i wanted to add a rear wing on my Chevy cruze....but the sho guy told me its not going to help in a front wheel driven car!
is it true? as i think no matter where the drives are will it not give aero benefit in a corner?
will it not stabilze my rear end?
or will it give me extra drag and low fuel economy?
Thank you

In order to make your FWD perfectly balanced with the xtra downforce, you might find it worthwhile to rip a page out of Jim Hall's book, again.

http://jayfields.freeserverhost.net/Can ... 07w/43.htm

Next time you're in Jim Hall's hometown of Midland, Texas there is an obscure wing of the local petroleum museum (!!!) that contains all of Jim Hall's race cars from the original wing and sucker sports cars on through the Indy winner. An exquisite display in an unexpected location.

[Pieoter]

@Lycoming : less than 8:08 at the Ring, 14s less than the 2nd best FWD car.

This implies the Renault is ~ 1 second per km quicker. This is a moderately small difference. Tire grip makes more difference than that.

Tire grip is largely a function of how much tire wear and rolling resistance the manufacturer is willing to tolerate on that particular car. Subaru or Mazda may fit their hot hatches with relatively ordinary production car tires while Renault fits this “race-only” model with track tires.

Also, the fact that the Renault uses tires with the name “Bridgestone 050?” does not mean those tires have any relationship to other tires with that name (except for tread styling). OE tire fitments are typically custom developments with a familiar name on the sidewall. I don’t know if the Renault tires in question are custom development or if they are actually similar to other tires of the same name that are fitted to other cars.

Anyway, if you want a good production FWD car to go 1 sec/km faster then worry about the tires, not which car you have.

I agree with everyone who says the wing is a functional loser on the street. However, I've also been curious to feel the on-track difference for a car with and without a significant rear wing. It would be interesting to feel the difference (grip, stability?). The wing could be justified out of human curiosity rather than performance vs cost.

In what way is the 265 a race only vehicle?

The Megane 230 r26.r which is the previous record holder was closer to being a track car but was still road legal. The 265 retains all the crearure comforts and runs on standard road tyres, the r26.r in the other hand used semi slicks to set its time.

[F1PuertoRico]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If you want downforce in your FWD, start at the front

[bill shoe]

In what way is the 265 a race only vehicle?

I confess I don't know anything about this car. However, Renault has the impression that it's a race version--

The Mégane Renaultsport 265 Trophy Limited Edition is a race version of the street vehicle, Mégane Renaultsport 250 Cup. To improve its 0-60mph performance, reduction in weight has been achieved by removing equipment, such as climate control (air conditioning remains as standard), tyre pressure monitor, exterior Renaultsport styling, rear armrests, electrically adjustable drivers seat and heated front seats. The reduction in weight has enabled the new limited edition Mégane Renaultsport 265 Trophy to set a new benchmark time for a production-specification front-wheel drive car at the Nürburgring’s infamous Nordschleife circuit. This performance beats the attempts of several far more powerful, rear-wheel drive cars

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5486898

[Pieoter]

Air conditioning remains as standard....nuff said

[eschezal]

Hello
Im a student of engineering. I want to make a project about cfd in formula 1. I have thought make a cfd analysis in a rear wing under 2014 formula 1 rules. Pelase, can you vive some advine? Also i need 3d draws for abaqus ¿Could you send me some draw.? A lot of thanks, i leed a lot of help!!!

[Lurk]

In what way is the 265 a race only vehicle?

I confess I don't know anything about this car. However, Renault has the impression that it's a race version--

The Mégane Renaultsport 265 Trophy Limited Edition is a race version of the street vehicle, Mégane Renaultsport 250 Cup. To improve its 0-60mph performance, reduction in weight has been achieved by removing equipment, such as climate control (air conditioning remains as standard), tyre pressure monitor, exterior Renaultsport styling, rear armrests, electrically adjustable drivers seat and heated front seats. The reduction in weight has enabled the new limited edition Mégane Renaultsport 265 Trophy to set a new benchmark time for a production-specification front-wheel drive car at the Nürburgring’s infamous Nordschleife circuit. This performance beats the attempts of several far more powerful, rear-wheel drive cars

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5486898

It is just marketing. Mégane RS 265 is nothing less that a Megane RS with 15HP more, recaro seats and the "Cup Pack" which is avalaible at 1400€ on the RS.

There is a Megane race car, but it look like this:

[olefud]

In theory, a rear wing will aid a front-wheel drive car in at least two ways. The rear wheels will be capable of greater braking effort at speed. And, with an appropriate adjustment to roll center or stiffness, there will be a bit more cornering ability.

Any additional aero down force is potentially a good thing. But just bolting a wing on is rather useless. A spoiler might well prrovide some of the advantages while actually improving aero drag.

[Earnard Beccelstone]

Reminds me of Top Gear hotting up a Renault people carrier, including fitting a Super Aguri rear wing at one point...


Pt 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUKQqFZvjk8
Pt 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiXfuvy3 ... re=related
Pt 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUjFVkUE ... re=related

Go to about 5:20 in Pt 2 for the F1 rear wing