Mercedes GP 2011

[munudeges]

Seg I can't help feel you missed the point, I think. Here's why:

AMG sells around 30,000 cars annually possibly more.
They are hugely profitable too.
They are also mercedes sporting arm.

I'm never too sure where these sales figures miraculously appear from JET because they're really quite fanciful, but Jaguar couldn't justify the expense of a Formula 1 team and couldn't work out what it did for them. AMG certainly can't either, as it appears as some of us thought that Mercedes are offloading the thing on to AMG - this name change hiding an awful lot more as some of us suspected.

There is certainly a 'why' in there, but it is definitely not what many think.

[richard_leeds]

aha - I see your post from yesterday.

Good point about Ola Källenius. If he has MHPE experience and now heads up AMG, then it looks like a bit of a reverse take over, the thoroughbred MHPE taking the lead in AMG? As opposed to some road car badge hitching a ride on an F1 engine plate.

This would see Merc positioning AMG as a true motor sports brand. That backs up ESPs idea about a separate AMG product to revival Ferrari & McLaren.

ps - that horse is dead in that there is nothing more to say until we see what happens in 2012.

[Cocles]

...as it appears as some of us thought that Mercedes are offloading the thing on to AMG

Even if this were true, I still don't see how this is a bad thing. Mercedes fully owns AMG. Mercedes fans revere AMG. It would still be a Mercedes team. Why are you referring to this as if it would be a bad thing?

[xpensive]

With Ola Källenius in charge of AMG, I'm certain it's more than a moniker, though it could be interpreted in diffent ways, where I'm leaning towards mun's suggestion Daimler is introducing AMG in order to alienate "Mercedes" from the team.

Giving room for a continued McLaren-Mercedes relationship perhaps?

[richard_leeds]

It could work two ways.

It could be positive affirmation to support a stronger AMG brand with its own AMG products (in the same way that Ferrari is part of the Fiat empire).

It could be negative in shuffling motor sport off to some corporate backwater called AMG.

Considering the strength of the AMG brand, if Merc wanted to shuffle F1 into a corner, then they'd have left MHPE alone as MHPE. They would have left AMG intact with its reputation unsullied.

Also a negative approach would have placed an AMG suit in charge of MHPE, but instead we see a thoroughbred racer put in charge of the road cars?

So I'm minded to see this is a consolidation of the motor sport assets to provide a strong capability for motor sport under the AMG brand.

Lets see if AMG race at Le Man and in DTM in place of Merc. The proof will be teh launch of stand alone AMG cars to rival McLaren & Ferari as opposed to AMG badges on standard Merc cars.

[FrukostScones]

Its all about an imagetransfer on AMG, Mercedes want the cars to be perceived as F1-techy. (sell more paddleshifter to the posers) It's a full advance not a retreat, they want to cash in on their engagement in F1, you can see this as full commitment not as alibi strategy inmho. It's Marketing, Mercedes GP was a weak and unknown brand they couldnd do anything with, so they dropped it. Logical step for the company, stupid step in my romantic traditionalist way of thinking.
Maybe later some tech-exchange beetween Brixworth and AMG, but mainly marketing in my op.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ Richard

AMG already race in DTM. Le Mans is scheduled next year with the AMG SLS GT3.

Also I think Mun needs a history lesson with regards to Mercedes and AMG.

AMG IS Mercedes. You cannot have AMG without Mercedes, bear this in mind me ol china. As Richard posted this is an alignemnet of Mercedes motorsports division. AMG sells Mercedes sports car iterations, so this is a deeper integration of that. Is it that difficult to understand? Its straightforward if you ask me.

Perhaps if Olla Kallenius farted you would say that this is a sign that AMG are in dire straights due to the high methane levels the board are being exposed to.

As for the sales figures, check out the daimler website and click "results". Im on Iphone and cannot source that just now but a very simple google search give you this from 4 years ago....

Daimler announced today record Mercedes AMG sales in 2008. The company says that 24,200 AMG branded units have been sold worldwide last year

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/04/bmw-m-and-mercedes-amg-each-see-huge-sales-spike-in-2008/

And they are the most profitable division within Mercedes as most of the car has already been developed.
Comparing AMG to Jaguar is just laughable. especially the situation Jag was in whilst in F1.

[richard_leeds]

JET -I was meaning an AMG team without the Merc bit.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@richard

It's the official AMG works team in DTM. Although the team is run by HWA

[xpensive]

I think most Mercedes buyers don't give a hoot about neither AMG nor F1, at the same time Zetsche has had his fair share of MrE's razzmatazz, hospitality suites and all, which is not much fun in the long run unless you win once in a while anyway.

Pass the ball to AMG, let them have a go for a couple of years, which makes it so much easier to kill if needed.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

How's this x.

AMG are about to have 3 "AMG" models, not mercedes-benz, but mercedes-AMG.

They supply pagani zonda epic V12s alot of us know about.... But what if it was AMG building these car to take the fight to Ferrari and McLaren? These will be the companies on road rivals, indeed IS their rivals.

Does it not make sense that they should have a higher profile? Remember my post last year? I did say I expected mercedes to go the AMG route for exactly the above reason.
I'm not a sage, and I don't expect an award... Because it's a logical business step. AMG sales are doing very well, the SLS is outselling all it's rivals apart from I believe the 458, of which I cannot verify because the figures aren't listed.

And all this using the ol 6.2 litre dinosaur v8 from 6 years ago.... Costs are low as most of the parts are already on the mercedes shelf. Meaning more profit.
Higher global exposure racing against the likes of McLaren and Ferrari.

[xpensive]

How's this x.
...
Does it not make sense that they should have a higher profile? Remember my post last year? I did say I expected mercedes to go the AMG route for exactly the above reason.
...

I never said the new strategy was wrong any more than the old one, just different. If Daimler judges that the AMG-production level warrants an F1 team, then fine, it's just that I remember Ford motor company having a similar strategy with Jaguar, which cost them 6000 EUR per car sold or something like that.

That didn't last, at the end of the day, manufacturers in F1 needs to win, at least on occation.

[richard_leeds]

Was that because the public never associated Jaguar with Ford so the cost-benefit was carried by Jaguar. However, AMG is associated with Mercedes so the cost-benefit is spread across a much wider base, ie all Merc cars.

[bhallg2k]

Ford never needed to be associated with Jaguar. They owned it along with any recognition it received.

In fact, I'd say that Ford's problem with Jaguar actually stemmed from such an association and the (not entirely inaccurate) perception that Jaguar cars had simply become very expensive Ford cars that no one wanted to buy. Jaguar F1's failure was unrelated, but I think Ford would have pressed on had either been successful.

I think for Mercedes, branding their F1 team Mercedes AMG Petronas is simply a logical move given that both AMG and F1 are, for many, synonymous with performance.

[xpensive]

Was that because the public never associated Jaguar with Ford so the cost-benefit was carried by Jaguar. However, AMG is associated with Mercedes so the cost-benefit is spread across a much wider base, ie all Merc cars.

I beg to differ, contrary to what many of F1T's aficinados believe, much of the different ownerships and associations within the automotive industry is virtually unknown to the general public, hence the different stickers on the VW's.

AMG's relation to Mecedes is of course crystal-clear to the likes of yourslf and JET, but I'm afraid that it might be confusing to the rest of the world, as if Porsche would suddenly call their racing cars RUF-Porsche or something.

I think Jaguars escapades in F1 did zip to Ford's image, good or bad, when people in general had no clue about things.

As for the "AMG"-branding of MGP, this was actually predicted by someone a long time ago, on this vey thread actually.
My modesty stops me from naming who of course, but scroll back if you have the time and you will find out.