Front Wing Design

[ublu32]

Hey,

I am analysing an F1 front wing as part of my final year Mechanical Engineering Degree.

I am trying to 3d model the front wing so I can then prototype it and test it in a wind tunnel.

Can somebody please tell me how to go about this?! i.e. what airfoil selection should I use, or is there anywhere I could get the co-ordinates for such a wing?!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

[andy fussell]

Hi

I have a CAD model of an f1 front wing, it's has been done to basic regulations. I could email it to you.

I would be interested in seeing the results, as I'm planning to get it prototyped for a radio controlled car.

[ublu32]

Hey,
Oh really, yes that could be really helpful! I'll pm you my email address, and if you can send that to me I'll take a look

(Ok, it won't seem to let me message you :/ my email is ublu32@hotmail.com)

[Robbobnob]

ublu, something to keep in mind while you perform your analysis.

A front wing on modern f1 cars are about "flow conditioning" as much as they are about creating down force.

Setting up vorticies that interact with the front of the chassis, as well as directing air up and around the front wheel, the characteristics and performance of the wing can only be truly comprehended when all these factors are considered.

Also remember when modelling the wing, that creating the most realistic model you can will represent the most accurate results, modelling the wheel behind the wing end plates as well as the chassis section will all have dramatic influence on pressures in the flows.

All the best!

[ublu32]

Thanks Rob!

I'm just wondering, is it really important to model the front wheel of the car, if perhaps I'm only analysing the wing in terms of downforce and drag and air flow? Will the wheel affect these values?

I'd imagine it would be quite hard to simulate as I think the wind tunnel I have access to is quite small.

[Robbobnob]

If the wind tunnel is quite small, may i suggest modelling one half of the front wing(from the nose to the end-plates of the wing)

In front of the wheel there will be a area of higher pressure, which will affect the flows around the wheel, and i would go as far as suggesting that it would also affect the characteristics of the wing.

Perhaps this could be a consideration for you to explore whilst developing your model.

As i am also undertaking my project this year i would be interested in your progress.

All the Best

[flynfrog]

a f1 wing is insanely complex. I would recommend going with something you can understand on paper first. A two element wing will provide a much more realistic challenge and plenty to play with. Also keep in mind you have to build and model this some how.

[ublu32]

a f1 wing is insanely complex. I would recommend going with something you can understand on paper first. A two element wing will provide a much more realistic challenge and plenty to play with. Also keep in mind you have to build and model this some how.

Yes, I know they're incredibly complex My plan was to try and base it on a previous wing that looks relatively simple, something like the Renault R29 from 2009?

Basically, I want to try and 3D model it, and then rapid-prototype the parts to assemble the wing and test it in a wind tunnel?
Do you think this could work?

[___]

Basically, I want to try and 3D model it, and then rapid-prototype the parts to assemble the wing and test it in a wind tunnel?
Do you think this could work?

Sure, this will "work". However whatever setup you end up with will have massive compromises in similarity with a race car or even an F1 wind tunnel. I would suggest that the best thing to do to get the most out of the exercise is to focus on what those compromises are, and see if you can describe them and perhaps put some numbers to them.

I'm just wondering, is it really important to model the front wheel of the car, if perhaps I'm only analysing the wing in terms of downforce and drag and air flow? Will the wheel affect these values?

Absolutely. Even on the R29, the endplates are designed almost exclusively to condition the flow round the front wheels. If you replaced them with flat endplates, you'd probably get lower drag without the wheels there.

I'd imagine it would be quite hard to simulate as I think the wind tunnel I have access to is quite small.

Rather than imagining, work out what the Reynolds number for an F1 front wing is, and work out what it would be for a model in a wind tunnel the size that you have. Then apply what you know or can find out about the effect of Reynolds number to decide how that's going to compromise your results.

I am trying to 3d model the front wing so I can then prototype it and test it in a wind tunnel.

Don't take it for granted that you can rapid prototype it. An F1 wing is relatively slender, and a lot of RP materials are not that stiff. I would expect even a 25% scale wing to cost a couple of hundred pounds to make out of a suitable material.

A lot of challenging facets to this project but I hope it goes well and you enjoy it!

[flynfrog]

honestly I would stick to a constant cross section multi element wing. a f1 wing is more about feeding the rest of the car as it as about creating downforce. If you are not modelling the rest of the car you will be producing a lot of effects you cant analyze

[elmerfud]

Has anybody got an airfoil spec from one of these wings?
(10% to 15%i'm guessing, heaps of camber)

[hardingfv32]

The Aerodynamic Interaction of a Rotating Wheel
and a Downforce Producing Wing in Ground Effect

By
Sammy Diasinos

Brian

[n smikle]

Thanks Rob!

I'm just wondering, is it really important to model the front wheel of the car, if perhaps I'm only analysing the wing in terms of downforce and drag and air flow? Will the wheel affect these values?

I'd imagine it would be quite hard to simulate as I think the wind tunnel I have access to is quite small.

What is the goal of the project? And how can it help mankind? How can it make money? Is it original? And did you apply what you learned?

You can easily get a low mark on your final year project if you don't address these things. It is easier to make a presentation on something that is meaningful. So you may modify your project to address these things. It could be a 90 dollar front spoiler that increases the highway fuel efficiency of your everyday family sedan. Same CFD anaylys- same skills required - it addresses those questions and it is something you can actually build and test.

[elmerfud]

A renewed interest in aviation branching from f1 is of benefit to all engineers, self taught or professional.

A plane has utter reliance on aerodynamic 'grip'.

[kilcoo316]

Hi ublu - in my experience you are biting off far too much.


Chances are you'll get neither wind tunnel or CFD to work right due to the complexities of what you are attempting to tackle.


I would strongly advise you reconsider what you are doing and look at what n smikle and flynfrog have suggested.



I'm actually quite surprised your supervisor permitted you to undertake something this wide in scope. Typically, where I was, such a project would have been split into at least two bits for two students, one focusing on computational analysis, the other experimental.