Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Are we?

Yes
55
39%
No
85
61%
 
Total votes : 140

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:45 am

bhallg2k wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:Hmm...Vettel/Rosberg...with Schumacher still as consultant. I'd like to see that happen...

I'm pretty sure that would violate a treaty of some sort. :wink:


I think you're right. There has to be some sort of ruling that prevents too many german WDCs on one team :lol: !
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:51 am

Jeffsvilleusa wrote:I like the concept of what defines a driver's era as the being the ability to switch teams and take momentum with you such as Senna or Schumacher, but did this ever really happen, or did it just seem to happen? When a driver is in a dog of a car, no amount of inspiration can reverse this.

I am tempted to say Newey should get most of the credit, but Vettel did put Webber in the shade last year...

Anyhow my prediction is Red Bull and Vettel will remain untouchable this year also. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but Newey is a clever fellow and he seems to have this current Formula pegged. And he always seems to be just one step ahead. While Ferrari were busy switching to pullrods, Red Bull were putting an inlet in the nose!


Thank you. I'd like to think that the hallmark of a great driver is one that can push a dog of a car to its limits to race for wins and championships. Case in point: Alonso in the F10. The F10 just didn't seem to have the same pace as the Mp4-25 or the RB6, but he managed 2nd in the WDC in 2010. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to accomplish the same for Mclaren and Renault back in 2008/2009. Should the off-chance that RB produces just as much of a low-caliber car, it will be interesting to see if Vettel can take charge as a driver and develop a latter-season, grand prix winning vehicle.
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:31 am

I think you give the drivers a bit too much credit. As has been mentioned already, no amount of driver talent or dedication can overcome a significant technology gap. A dog is a dog.

Alonso nearly taking the the F10 to a World Championship doesn't necessarily mean he's superhuman for doing so in a dog of a car; it means the F10 had considerable capability, but was probably very difficult to drive to reach that capability. I think we saw the flip side of those results with the F60.

Luca Badoer had his lifelong dream of competing in Formula 1 in a Ferrari turn into a horrible nightmare because he simply could not come to terms with that car. And I, for one, refuse to believe that he is as bad of a driver as his race results appeared to indicate. After all, Fisichella didn't fare that much better, either, when you consider that, unlike Badoer, he'd been driving then-current machinery all year long. In retrospect, it becomes a little easier to see that Raikkonen drove the wheels off of that thing. But, in the end, no driver - not even a former World Champion - could tame it. It was just a bad car, and that cannot be overcome.

Vettel is easily in the very top echelon of Formula 1 drivers. But, until he replicates his success in another car, one that's not an Adrian Newey Red Bull masterpiece that seems to present the World Championship on a silver platter, I think his all-time worth is still up for debate.

I want to see him in a scenario that somewhat mirrors Alonso's experience with the F10: in a car that absolutely requires his contribution in order for it to be a winner, one where his talent is the sole differentiating factor. Only then will I render my personal judgment.

(Sorry for the long post. I just felt like writing.)
Last edited by bhall on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: America, Inc.

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:09 am

RB7ate9 wrote:
marcush. wrote:it´s a matter of RB or where he chooses to drive in the coming years.Career planning is more important than talent methinks.Can RB stay in front? how far does loyalty go for Seb?


Very true. Which is why the thread is labled "Vettel Era". Can Vettel continue his winning streak without Red Bull and/or Newey? The answer remains elusive!



SV will be the hottest property in F1 by the time he finishes he contract with RBR in 2014. By then, FA and JB would have reached the tail end of their career with their respective team, MSC retired. So that will leave Vettel, Kimi and LH as the only world champions left for top teams to consider.
CHT
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:20 am

CHT wrote:[...] in 2014. By then, FA and JB would have reached the tail end of their career [...] So that will leave Vettel, Kimi and LH as the only world champions left for top teams to consider.

I highly doubt Button and Alonso will be over the hill in two years, much less somehow behind Raikkonen, who's the same age as Button (32) and two years older than Alonso.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: America, Inc.

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:29 am

CHT wrote: So that will leave Vettel, Kimi and LH as the only world champions left for top teams to consider.


What if Grosjean manages to beat Kimi? And what a potential return for Kubica? Rosberg?
I also think Alonso will still have 3 or 4 good seasons in him come 2014, which makes him a candidate for any team still.

Outsiders with potential to throw their hat in the ring? Kobayashi, Senna or Di Resta. I don't mean to degrade Massa or Webber, but I see any of the aforementioned trio doing every bit as a good a job as those 2.

Vettel will, I feel, end up at either Ferrari or Mercedes. Mercedes seem a more likely proposition. And it would actually echo Schumacher's move to Ferrari as a Champion moving to a team in transition, with Vettel gaining the plaudits by returning the silver arrows to winning ways. It's almost written.
Who knows, Newey may want to also be part of the story. But would he follow Vettel, or would he create a trail for Vettel to follow him?
By 2014 we could be talking about a 4 time WDC and WCC team, new challenges and all that sort of thing....
More could have been done.
David Purley
JohnsonsEvilTwin
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:33 am

bhallg2k wrote:Vettel is easily in the very top echelon of Formula 1 drivers. But, until he replicates his success in another car, one that's not an Adrian Newey Red Bull masterpiece that seems to present the World Championship on a silver platter, I think his all-time worth is still up for debate.

Just consider this though:
-All of Ayrton Senna's championships (and most successes) were achieved in McLaren Honda's, designed by the duo of Steve Nichols and Neil Oatley (who were also responsible for the 1998/1999 championship winning McLarens).
-All of Michael Schumacher's championships were won in cars/teams with Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne.
mnmracer
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2011

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:45 am

Yep. All true.

But, no one will ever confuse Mark Webber for Alain Prost, and winning five consecutive World Championships is truly a feat no matter how good the cars were.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: America, Inc.

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:51 am

Well F1 Racing mag did have this edition a while earlier :lol:
Image

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Vettel will, I feel, end up at either Ferrari or Mercedes. Mercedes seem a more likely proposition.

Agreed. Except for the second sentence - I think Ferrari seems more likely in the long run.

And it would actually echo Schumacher's move to Ferrari as a Champion moving to a team in transition, with Vettel gaining the plaudits by returning the silver arrows to winning ways. It's almost written.


Who knows, Newey may want to also be part of the story. But would he follow Vettel, or would he create a trail for Vettel to follow him?

I don't think Newey would go to Merc to be honest. I mean, you're talking of shaking up a team's technical structure, that has recently been shaken up anyways? I don't think so... Though I could be wrong.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:53 am

I agree, but I'm just saying it's not as simple. If Vettel wins another 2 or 3 titles in the next 5 years, even if in Newey machinery, it's not that different from Schumacher's winning streak.
mnmracer
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2011

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:57 am

Agreed. But, people still debate Schumacher's worth as a driver despite his record. In a similar situation, I don't see how Vettel could be treated any differently.

raymondu999 wrote:Well F1 Racing mag did have this edition a while earlier :lol:
[Image]

And that's just unfortunate. (If I didn't have bad luck, I'd never have any luck at all.)
Last edited by bhall on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: America, Inc.

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:59 am

But the group of people not considering Schumacher at least one of the greats, is almost without overstating it, a million times smaller than those who question if Vettel is even a mid-field driver.
mnmracer
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2011

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:01 pm

That's because Schumacher's won it all SEVEN times. If Vettel does that, too, people will shut up and give him his due. I know I will.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: America, Inc.

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:08 pm

Oh god, so we have to wait another 5 years for this bloody whining to stop? :P
mnmracer
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2011

Post Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:09 pm

I'll sweeten the deal. I'll shut up after the 6th title :P
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

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