Red Bull RB8 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:19 pm

gandharva
 
Joined: 6 Feb 2012
Location: Munich

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:32 pm

shelly wrote:So this arrangement with pillar and conventional looking endplates is just a first step. I excpect new endplates to come out in next test or in melbourne


It has reduced the size of the actuator, also. Perhaps the importance of this area has increased now that diffuser blowing is banned.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu
horse
 
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:56 pm

Yes it could be. I think that you would always want a drs actuator as small as possible, and the pillar allows for that.

But if you want to have a fancy shaped endplate, or a fancy shaped beam wing, than probably it is easier to give the pillar the structural role.

My idea about blowing is that there is a lot of low pressure/downforce to exploit when you manage to accelerate a vortex along its axis, and then make this accelerated vortex flow beneath a down-facing surface.

The accelerated vortex has a much lower inner pressure because it's narrower and forced to "rotate" more quickly, for angular momentum conservation (this is called vortex stretching).

I think this acceleration of vortices can be more effective than simply blowing against a surface, which is anyway effective.

Last year ebd (and fee) expoited vortex acceleration in my opinion, by blowing inside the footplate vortex (or the low bargeboard vortex in the case of fee)

With 2012 exhausts' position, besides tip vortices from the brake ducts, a kinked beam wing (abrupt change of section in top view), a deeply cutout endplate or even a beam wing without endplates could be the generators of powerful enough vortices to be accelerated, if the velocity from the exhausts has not decayed too much.

We will see if new developments guve credit or are in contrast with this pet theory
twitter: @armchair_aero
shelly
 
Joined: 5 May 2009

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:44 pm

bhallg2k wrote:Interesting. You don't often see Red Bull copying a Ferrari concept (DRS/wing pillar).

RB7ate9 wrote:I agree, I think the thinness of the letterbox betrays the fact that the volume flow rate through there is much higher and more direct than placing a hole in the front of the nose that will lose more energy by the time it gets to the cockpit.

No. Just no.


I look forward to your explanation.
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:48 pm

RB7ate9 wrote:Also, an added benefit is to add energized flow over the sidepods. Seems like a simple enough modification, I wonder why this wasn't as prevalent on 2011 cars?


More accurately, why was this not done in the last 10-20 years on any formula car?

I does not work!

Brian
hardingfv32
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2011

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:00 pm

RB7ate9 wrote:
tjaeger wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Hmmm.... I do not remember seeing this before.

[img]http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4585/338v.png[img]


Any idea what it is used for? Purpose?

Could that be the exist of air collected at the slot in the hump of the front wing? Would this add any value, advantage?


Based on the pointed elliptical shape of the exhaust, this must be Newey's latest innovation to be copied by every other team :wink:


If it was Newey's should it not have a gurney on it?
Last edited by Richard on Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed image quoted from post above
You cannot engineer out stupidity.
tjaeger
 
Joined: 13 Oct 2010

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:16 pm

hardingfv32 wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:Also, an added benefit is to add energized flow over the sidepods. Seems like a simple enough modification, I wonder why this wasn't as prevalent on 2011 cars?


More accurately, why was this not done in the last 10-20 years on any formula car?

I does not work!

Brian


One explanation could be that having that disturbance wouldn't be offset with aero benefits. Perhaps even with any high-pressure build-up, the exit doesn't have enough flow to either create a smoother boundary layer, add energized air to the rear flow, or overcome the turbulence from such a sharp cut. The presence of assorted exits on the sidepods next to the cockpit during race weekends suggest a benefit, but whether or not it extends beyond simply being more effective at cooling the driver during hot days is questionable, as, at first, I had thought that this was a new development until someone pointed out that these have been on cars for years.

If only I had all the hi-rez photos, data outputs, team radio recordings, race video, and the design team with me so I could really find out the truth! :(
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:17 pm

Why would Red Bull go back to central pillar for flap actuation after all the effort? I was thinking the other day if you apply enough force, you can twist/bend the entire rear wing assembly. That surely could bring a substantial gain when the DRS is activated.
eyes
"Too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives from the shattered dreams of other human beings." -Robert F. Kennedy
Shrieker
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010
Location: Istanbul, TR

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:27 pm

Testing front wing. Right click>view image

Image

Image

Image

RB8 Exhaust

Image
Last edited by Crucial_Xtreme on Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Crucial_Xtreme
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:09 pm

The rack that holds the sensors look like its CNC machined from one slab of billet aluminum..$$$$ no matter why they left FOTA.
"You can't change what happened. But you can still change what will happen.
Sebastian Vettel"
PlatinumZealot
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:28 pm

RB7ate9 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:I agree, I think the thinness of the letterbox betrays the fact that the volume flow rate through there is much higher and more direct than placing a hole in the front of the nose that will lose more energy by the time it gets to the cockpit.

No. Just no.


I look forward to your explanation.

The general consensus thus far has been that the stepped noses do not inflict much of a drag penalty, because of the way air flows over the top of the nose. This is borne out when you make a comparison between RB7's nose inlet and RB8's "letterbox." The "letterbox" is much, much larger, because the airflow into it is nowhere near as direct or abundant.

(Sorry for the terse rejection of your idea earlier.)
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:31 pm

n smikle wrote:The rack that holds the sensors look like its CNC machined from one slab of billet aluminum..$$$$ no matter why they left FOTA.


Can you further explain why this is considered a costly solution?
"Leave me alone. I know what I’m doing" - Kimi Räikkönen
JimiJams
 
Joined: 13 Dec 2011

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:58 pm

bhallg2k wrote: The "letterbox" is much, much larger, because the airflow into it is nowhere near as direct or abundant.


That actual hole in the letterbox doesn't appear to be that big. I recall it is limited to the same area as the nose inlet, or the ducted inlet Schumacher use last year.

I agree the surrounding ramp does seem to be shaped like a dam which would infer that you can have a relatively large disruption at that point without too much penalty.
Richard
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:22 pm

richard_leeds wrote:
bhallg2k wrote: The "letterbox" is much, much larger, because the airflow into it is nowhere near as direct or abundant.


That actual hole in the letterbox doesn't appear to be that big. I recall it is limited to the same area as the nose inlet, or the ducted inlet Schumacher use last year.

I agree the surrounding ramp does seem to be shaped like a dam which would infer that you can have a relatively large disruption at that point without too much penalty.


I can't wait to get a picture of the RB8 bulkhead with the nose off! We will get one. Might not be until Monza, but we'll get one. :lol:
Crucial_Xtreme
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte

Post Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:44 pm

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:I can't wait to get a picture of the RB8 bulkhead with the nose off! We will get one. Might not be until Monza, but we'll get one. :lol:


You'll get one at FP1 on 15 March, they have to have open garage doors are race weekends. We sometimes get some good pics the day before when they are setting up.
Richard
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

PreviousNext

Return to F1 Car Hardware & Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Mamba, sparxxx and 7 guests