Horner says Button probably biggest threat to Vettel

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Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:58 pm

pre-season testing seems to show that RBR and McLaren are probably the best cars at the moment
but does that make button the leading candidate to overthrow the current champion ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17284142

for a start regulations have changed ; RBR and ferrari found a method to be consistently quickest off the line [ even if webber didn't master it ] ; the new 1st gear off the line regulation is designed to stop any pseudo launch control

blocking is now banned , vettel , massa and schu were fond of that so will suffer a disadvantage , alonso/hamilton/button/webber never did it so should gain ; strangely enough the two McL drivers probably gain the most , but for different reasons .....hamilton because he went for the overtake at the slightest opportunity , whereas button , despite being an ace overtaker , is much more risk averse , which won't apply this year if the stewards do their job

but as I have stated elsewhere , the renault engines seem better adaptable to obtain the best oof the new reduced blowing ....and that should enable RBR to stay at the top , they have the funds to keep developing the car

webber is looking mean and lean this season , no doubt still smarting from what has happened the last 2 seasons ...he gets my vote
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
lebesset
 
Joined: 6 Aug 2008

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Eh? I didn't think the RBRs were spectacular off the line. They were (relative to McL/Ferrari) probably over the course of the season the worst - though a close third.

I can't help but think that Webber won't be near Vettel again. Maybe not as far as in 2011 - but nowhere near his 2010 levels. I think subconsciously there's probably a fraction of his mind that's resigned - even with Vettel getting hampered by reliability and rookie mistakes (which to be fair - Vettel should have shed already at that stage) in 2009 and 2010 - that he wasn't able to beat him over a season.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:03 pm

If, let's say, RBR have the cars that stick out of the pack like they did last year and they let Webber race with Vettel, I think that he has a good chance at the champioship.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985
stefan_
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2012

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:19 pm

You would have to believe that from last year that Button does pose the biggest threat, also now Button will not have any issues getting his tyres to switch on with the new exhaust reg`s that shouldn`t be an issue. Then you have the biggest stand out factor that McLaren in general do seem to be very competitive on Long run`s! Hamilton will be out to prove himself all over again though, never discount him!
KingHamilton
 
Joined: 7 Feb 2012

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:23 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Eh? I didn't think the RBRs were spectacular off the line. They were (relative to McL/Ferrari) probably over the course of the season the worst - though a close third.

I can't help but think that Webber won't be near Vettel again. Maybe not as far as in 2011 - but nowhere near his 2010 levels. I think subconsciously there's probably a fraction of his mind that's resigned - even with Vettel getting hampered by reliability and rookie mistakes (which to be fair - Vettel should have shed already at that stage) in 2009 and 2010 - that he wasn't able to beat him over a season.


Vettel's starts were fine last year. I think he only ever lost positions at the start in China, Germany and Italy. Webber was the one who suffered the most with the starts. I think you have to go back to Silverstone 2010 to see the last time he actually gained a place at the start.
Gerhard Berger
 
Joined: 20 Sep 2010

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:26 pm

Gerhard Berger wrote:Vettel's starts were fine last year. I think he only ever lost positions at the start in China, Germany and Italy.

They were fine - but usually he'd be at Turn 1 with the car in P2 less than 8 meters away.

There were times when he had amazing starts - but there were times when his starts were awful. Hencewhy I said over the season
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:29 pm

speaking of start`s any idea`s on why ferrari and Alonso were so quick off the line last season? some stonking start`s from him! McLaren didn`t seem to be to great of the line on a lot of occassion`s.
KingHamilton
 
Joined: 7 Feb 2012

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:54 pm

In that interview, Horner says that Jenson would be the biggest threat to Vettel and Webber:

Asked to pick out the strongest rival to Vettel and his team-mate Mark Webber, Horner responded: "Probably Jenson."


From the OP's comments it sounds as though Horner said that Jenson will be more of a threat to Vettel than Webber, which would have been very poor form from the RBR team principal.
Websta
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2012

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:22 pm

KingHamilton wrote:speaking of start`s any idea`s on why ferrari and Alonso were so quick off the line last season? some stonking start`s from him! McLaren didn`t seem to be to great of the line on a lot of occassion`s.


Alonso was hampered by poor starts in the first few races in 2011 and also in alot of races in 2010. He got a new clutch at Barcelona, and since then he's been making rockets starts.

On James Allen's website, he has some interesting stats on net positions gained/lost in all races across the season:

Gained places

+29 Schumacher *

+19 Glock
+18 Liuzzi

+16 Kovalainen
+15, Buemi #
+13 Alonso***
+12 Ricciardo
+8 Di Resta, Massa
+4 D’Ambrosio, Heidfeld ******
+3 Kobayashi**
+2 Trulli

Lost places
-2, Chandhok,

-3 Vettel ######
-7, Rosberg*****
-8 Hamilton, Maldonado
- 9 Sutil ##,
-11 Button, Alguersuari####

-12 Perez ###
-16 Petrov,****,
-20 Senna, Barrichello #####

- 23 Webber

* Schumacher had one bad start in Australia, losing 8 places but since then has been the season’s outstanding starter. He gained 9 places in Spa and four in Monza.

** Kobayashi lost 10 places in Spain, prior to that he had gained 8 in 4 starts. He lost 7 places in an incident at the start in India.

*** After losing places in the first three races, Alonso has reversed that trend. His starts in Barcelona and Monza were outstanding.

**** Petrov had a good record until he lost 4 places at the start in Valencia. He was on a +2 balance before Monza where he was taken out at the start.

***** Rosberg lost four places at the start in Silverstone and was on a +6 balance before Monza where he was taken out in the first corner

****** Heidfeld had gained 20 places but lost 12 at the start in Germany

******* Di Resta had consistent start form and gained 7 places in the first nine races, but lost 12 at the start in Germany.

# Buemi made up nine places at the start in Hungary having started 23rd on the grid

## Sutil had a positive start balance until Hungary where he lost 12 places at the start

### Perez lost nine places off the start in Hungary.

#### Alguersuari was doing well with a +6 record prior to Spa, where he was hit by another car and lost 18 places. In Monza he gained 7 places at the start.

##### Barrichello lost 7 places at the start in India

###### Vettel had a non-contact puncture and retired on lap 1 in Abu Dhabi

Gerhard Berger
 
Joined: 20 Sep 2010

Post Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:54 pm

Pretty reasonable analysis if Mclaren is Red Bull's biggest threat. The tyres are degrading much more than last year,managing tyres will be crucial. Jenson is settling more & more into the team. If he does not have those pit stop & mechanical failures like last year then he will definitely be a big challenger.
Mr.S
 
Joined: 9 Apr 2011

Post Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:59 am

Mr.S wrote:Pretty reasonable analysis if Mclaren is Red Bull's biggest threat. The tyres are degrading much more than last year,managing tyres will be crucial. Jenson is settling more & more into the team. If he does not have those pit stop & mechanical failures like last year then he will definitely be a big challenger.

By the same logic, I came to the conclusion that Hamilton will be the bigger challenger this year, mostly because of how pirelli changed them – they've very specifically made the fronts wear faster, and the rears wear slower. Given that the reason Hamilton couldn't use his normal style of hanging the back out, was exactly because the rear tyres wore too fast doing that, I think we'll see him make a comeback this year.
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:29 pm

So Horner also sees Mclaren as main rival.
Jimi_Hendrix_1967
 
Joined: 22 Mar 2011

Post Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:11 am

He probably sees Hamilton in a more fragile mental state than Button. So is hoping that by saying Hamilton is not the main rival he will induce LH to forcing things and possibly making mistakes.
kilcoo316
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2005
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

Post Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:14 am

Horner doesn't see anything. He just trying to destabilize Mclaren and their drivers.
He knows without blown rear diffusers and the new passing rules Hamilton is going to thrive. Button may in fact suffer from the lack of blowing.
Vettel in fact needs to worry about Webber. When things get more competitive on track and racing gets close webber ussualy comes through.
This is the year of the brawlers, thanks to better tyres, less grippy rear and better passing rules, Webber and Lewis may in fact thrive.
Horner would love to have Button as the main rival though, Vettel would waltz it.
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:27 am

If Hamilton comes to the 2012 season with the mindset he had in 2007 and the McLaren is close to being competitive then Button will get his arse handed to him and RedBull will be hard pushed to keep on top of him.

If, as is more likely, Hamilton turns up still thinking about his ex every 5 minutes then he'll have another mare of a season and Vettel will probably be ok.

Button needs a perfect car. Hamilton doesn't. They're both blindingly quick when they're happy. If Hamilton is fully switched on then he will be the real force against RBR. If not, then he'll daydream his way in to trouble like last year...

Horner is trying to play mind games knowing that Hamilton has an ego. Saying Button is the challenge puts pressure on Button and pokes Hamilton's ego. Horner will hope that one sees red mist and the other believes the hype. Result? Both fail. Webber isn't an issue because Vettel/RBR is like Schuie/Ferrari. Everyone knows their place. Especially the No.2 driver...
Just_a_fan
 
Joined: 31 Jan 2010

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