Importance of speed at corner entry

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Nando
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Nando » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:48 pm

ajdavison2 wrote:Actually he was spot on, the car is understeering and oversteering quite a lot, there was a comparison between JB and FA on the SKY coverage and FA had like twice as much lock on through the corners and was making lots of corrections for the oversteer. He also had a huge moment out of the final corner, (not sure if this was due to oversteer or early DRS activation so we'll call that one a grey area). But all the way through the weekend the car has been very 'slidey'. I think I heard last year that if a driver is putting more than a quarter turn of lock on through an average corner then it is a sure sign of understeer, FA was almost crossing his hands at some points!


That could be steering lock difference. Some like a fast rack some like more lock.

Understeer is when the car goes straight ahead. Have you any footage of the car understeer straight ahead?
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eurocentric
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby eurocentric » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:58 pm

Nando wrote:

Understeer is when the car goes straight ahead. Have you any footage of the car understeer straight ahead?


it's not when the car just ploughs on in a straight line, there are varying degrees of under steer, it means he is having to apply more and more lock which then leads to more tyre scrub and less speed and tyre wear and it feels from experience awful, the car just doesn't go into the corner how you want it to.

NathanOlder
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby NathanOlder » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Its true that the steering speed could be different, so the position of the steering wheels in different cars may not be accurate, BUT like ajdavidson & eurocentric said, the car WAS understeering into most corners, this was easy to spot with the SKY footage as the comparison with JB's car you could see the steering wheels difference, but more importantly, you could see the front wheels at more of an angle, and we know the Ferrari was going slower than the Mclaren.

Slower corner speed, More Steering lock, Front wheels turned at a higher angle = Understeer in my opinion.

Echo
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Echo » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:25 pm

What an ignorant comment.
Understeer is no issue in the Ferrari first of all.
Oversteer i can´t see. All i can see is aerodynamic imbalance.


And now to the ignorant comment. You do know that most of the design team at Mclaren is actually Italians? They said it themselves and could not explain why that is.[/quote]

DId you watch the qualy? When Alonso got onto the gravel, we saw the Ferrari mechanics immediately went to the front wing on massas car and adjusted it. On the record I´m karting .....

OKay fair enough, In the karting business Italians dominate. But I know people who have worked in Pinifarrina, and they had to all the time look what the Italian engineers did. They said, they are excellent inovators but they cant always see the wrong with it..
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MuseF1
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby MuseF1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:28 pm

Echo wrote:What an ignorant comment.
Understeer is no issue in the Ferrari first of all.
Oversteer i can´t see. All i can see is aerodynamic imbalance.



An Aerodynamic imbalance will give you either understeer or oversteer...

NathanOlder
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby NathanOlder » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:30 pm

MuseF1 wrote:
Echo wrote:What an ignorant comment.
Understeer is no issue in the Ferrari first of all.
Oversteer i can´t see. All i can see is aerodynamic imbalance.



An Aerodynamic imbalance will give you either understeer or oversteer...




Spot on =D>

marcush.
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby marcush. » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:32 pm

MuseF1 wrote:
Echo wrote:What an ignorant comment.
Understeer is no issue in the Ferrari first of all.
Oversteer i can´t see. All i can see is aerodynamic imbalance.



An Aerodynamic imbalance will give you either understeer or oversteer...


if it were that easy...
sure understeer in snap oversteer corner exit is nothing new and not necessarily an aero issue at all


btw Massas car suffered an off on Friday ..and someone mentioned the rollhoop cracking when the car was lifted -could it be Massas tub suffered damage and due to this it´s not performing?

eurocentric
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby eurocentric » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:33 pm

Echo wrote:What an ignorant comment.
Understeer is no issue in the Ferrari first of all.
Oversteer i can´t see. All i can see is aerodynamic imbalance.


And now to the ignorant comment. You do know that most of the design team at Mclaren is actually Italians? They said it themselves and could not explain why that is.




Whoa fanboy in denial alert!!!!!
Last edited by eurocentric on Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marc.W
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Marc.W » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:43 pm

Echo wrote:What an ignorant comment.
Understeer is no issue in the Ferrari first of all.
Oversteer i can´t see. All i can see is aerodynamic imbalance.


:lol:

Please at least be a little bit realistic when making comments like that, to be so short sighted to say there is no over or understeer is a bit silly

Alonso likes a car with a lively back end, but the back end on the F2012 is costing him time by doing massive rear slides, the front end doesn't look as bad in Alonso's hands as it does in Massa's

Nando
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Nando » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:02 pm

eurocentric wrote:
Nando wrote:

Understeer is when the car goes straight ahead. Have you any footage of the car understeer straight ahead?


it's not when the car just ploughs on in a straight line, there are varying degrees of under steer, it means he is having to apply more and more lock which then leads to more tyre scrub and less speed and tyre wear and it feels from experience awful, the car just doesn't go into the corner how you want it to.


If the tires loose grip the car will go straight.
If the car does not go straight-ish then it´s not understeer.
More likely to little downforce or coming into the turn to hot.

Any video of him understeering and missing apexes would be greatly appreciated.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

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Nando
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Nando » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:08 pm

Echo wrote:DId you watch the qualy? When Alonso got onto the gravel, we saw the Ferrari mechanics immediately went to the front wing on massas car and adjusted it. On the record I´m karting .....

Yes of course i watched it.
Alonso was the only one hitting gravel today? Nope.
Did all of them frenetically started screwing on the front wing? Not really.

If you to little downforce and come in to hot you will hit the gravel.

You can take the Mclaren, take a U-turn at 300km/h and then turn the wheel.
Is the car understeery or did you simply come into the corner too hot?


Echo wrote:OKay fair enough, In the karting business Italians dominate. But I know people who have worked in Pinifarrina, and they had to all the time look what the Italian engineers did. They said, they are excellent inovators but they cant always see the wrong with it..

Great i guess. But that does not explain how most of Mclaren engineer staff is Italian now does it?

And from my point of view it seem their car works rather well.

Being Italian or being from any other country in the world has ZERO to do with your personality or mind of thinking.

Adrian´s exhaust layout 2.0 seems to not be working as expected.
Maybe he´s Italian?
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

NathanOlder
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby NathanOlder » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:39 pm

@ ajdavison +1

Marc.W
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Marc.W » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:39 pm

Understeer is not swinging the wheel to full lock at 300km/h that's just idiocity. It's the wheels under steering relative to the amount of input the driver puts into the wheel, when you see a driver miss an apex it's understeer 90% of the time
Last edited by Marc.W on Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nando
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Nando » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:42 pm

ajdavison2 wrote:I dont understand the logic of your post in relation to the current discussion, you said the Ferrari had no over or understeer to which members of this forum counter argued.

I´ve yet to see any understeer from the car. Only snap-oversteer.

Please, if you have footage of the car understeering then post it.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

NathanOlder
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby NathanOlder » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:56 pm

I cant believe you havent seen any understeer from the ferrari, Id go as far as saying every car in qualifying (all 24 of them) would have experienced understeer today in qualifying at some point. Ferrari certainly more than Mclaren, Mercedes, Lotus & Red Bull.




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