Red Bull RB8 Renault

[GrizzleBoy]

didn't have as much DF as the "blown" solution but had better balance.

Balance... We are talking about a transient balance, one more subject to the variations in exhaust flow?

So the assumption would be that last years off throttle blowing was a big help keeping the balance more steady. This year it is back to bigger swings in rear down force levels based on change exhaust flow. Some driver might cope with this better than others.

Brian

Last year they basically were just putting on a load of front wing to balance the masses of downforce at the rear.

This year, the lack of control they have over the exhaust flow gives inconsistent and unreliable results, both of which reduce confidence.

Lower confidence that the car will stick = Slower lap times due to hesitating

Seb is probably feeling like he cant comfortably push the car and feels with a more stable setup, he can stay on the limit easier and at a more constant level.

[motobaleno]

hi guys, any pictures of the exhaust layouts adopted during quali?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

hi guys, any pictures of the exhaust layouts adopted during quali?

Check page 144

[motobaleno]

thanks mate,
actually I wondered if those configuration adopted on friday were definitely confirmed on saturday... webber was incredibily faster than vettel this morning...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

thanks mate,
actually I wondered if those configuration adopted on friday were definitely confirmed on saturday... webber was incredibily faster than vettel this morning...

No worries. Yes Seb kept the launch exhaust solution & Mark kept the latest solution. I think after this weekend they will stay with the newer solution.

[WhiteBlue]

No worries. Yes Seb kept the launch exhaust solution & Mark kept the latest solution. I think after this weekend they will stay with the newer solution.

I agree. The impression from free practise was that Newey supported the McLaren solution run by Mark Webber. Seb was probably more comfortably with the narrow exhaust solution but the performance is ultimately with the McLaren style solution.

[Lycoming]

If where Vettel really lost out was in S3, that implies the new exhaust is better. That section does emphasize rear end grip over front end grip.

[raymondu999]

If the B-spec exhaust really gives more on-throttle rear downforce, it would mean either exit understeer or entry oversteer (into non-flat corners)

I wonder if that's where the difference lies. Webber prefers a stable rear - and I wonder if he set his car up in such a way that he gets exit understeer rather than entry oversteer.

It was evident that he was setting his car up for some understeer last year too as he trid to put in a little bit more stability for more drs-open confidence in quali. In fast corners you could see he would just try to live with some understeer - but that meant he could open the DRS through the marginal corners.

[raymondu999]

Speaking of specifications of car. What rear wing +DRS configurations did each use?

[adrianjordan]

If the B-spec exhaust really gives more on-throttle rear downforce, it would mean either exit understeer or entry oversteer (into non-flat corners)

I wonder if that's where the difference lies. Webber prefers a stable rear - and I wonder if he set his car up in such a way that he gets exit understeer rather than entry oversteer.

It was evident that he was setting his car up for some understeer last year too as he trid to put in a little bit more stability for more drs-open confidence in quali. In fast corners you could see he would just try to live with some understeer - but that meant he could open the DRS through the marginal corners.

I think Webber can just live with the shifting balance more comfortably than Vettel...look back to 2010 before they brought in the off-throttle blowing and Mark was doing well, it was only once the off-throttle blowing came in that Vettel started to really out perform him...

...I need to relate this to the RB8 in some way...

...I think that B-spec probably does give better on throttle grip, but possibly the shift in balance off-throttle is even bigger than it was for the RB6 due to the exhaust exit being further away from the diffuser....

[raymondu999]

I think Webber can just live with the shifting balance more comfortably than Vettel...look back to 2010 before they brought in the off-throttle blowing and Mark was doing well, it was only once the off-throttle blowing came in that Vettel started to really out perform him..

Possibly. Maybe Vettel wants a car that, say, constantly understeers or oversteers, rather than an ever-changing balance.

possibly the shift in balance off-throttle is even bigger than it was for the RB6 due to the exhaust exit being further away from the diffuser....

That would lead to a smaller shift though, as the energy would dissipate through the distance.

[Mandrake]

Possibly. Maybe Vettel wants a car that, say, constantly understeers or oversteers, rather than an ever-changing balance.

Well, I cannat imagine any driver wanting to have a car that changes balance all the time, that would make it impossible to drive at the limit. You never know if it's going to understeer or oversteer.

I believe Vettel drives the car closer to its limit, that's what we've seen in 2010 and 2011. This year though with the instability and unpredictability he has to be overly cautious to not push too hard. He is not feeling at home, thus is not able to push as much as Webber is atm doing.

To be fair though, even if MW is better atm, the car has to improve on the stability front to challenge for any title. Cause even Mark is way off the pace.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Red Bull have introduced the slit in the floor ahead of the rear tyre like Sauber had in Malaysia. Also new is the double vertical strakes just ahead of the diffuser area.




New diffuser?

[hardingfv32]

Well, I cannot imagine any driver wanting to have a car that changes balance all the time, that would make it impossible to drive at the limit. You never know if it's going to understeer or oversteer.

I believe Vettel drives the car closer to its limit, that's what we've seen in 2010 and 2011. This year though with the instability and unpredictability he has to be overly cautious to not push too hard.

1) As far as the exhaust layout goes, any imbalance that it causes will only take place while off throttle AND IN A TURN. This is not very much of the average F1 lap time. I am going to venture a number of less than 10% of the lap. It is rare that the majority of a turn is taken at part throttle.

2) THERE IS NOTHING UNPREDICTABLE ABOUT THIS SETUP. The driver knows when he is off the throttle and he knows exactly how the car's balance will change.

Brian

[Mandrake]

1) As far as the exhaust layout goes, any imbalance that it causes will only take place while off throttle AND IN A TURN. This is not very much of the average F1 lap time. I am going to venture a number of less than 10% of the lap. It is rare that the majority of a turn is taken at part throttle.

2) THERE IS NOTHING UNPREDICTABLE ABOUT THIS SETUP. The driver knows when he is off the throttle and he knows exactly how the car's balance will change.

Brian

1) But that is the essence of the lap. Everyone can drive in a straight line or through a corner with the foot buried down, but the crucial moments are the corners you have to brake/change speed for.

2) How do you know it's like that? Personal experience? All I can tell you from my OWN experience is that even small things such as tire pressures can mess everything up. Semi-Slick tires on the Nordschleife. We got the tire pressure right for the cold morning but 3 laps later it was much warmer and so was the tire. The car behaved differently in every corner every lap, massive understeer became snap on oversteer (it was a FWD car) .

So if it was known to the driver, how come that even MW, who is supposedly mastering the car, is unable to drive the car consistently quick....?