Rethinking 2008 cars with 2012 knowledge

[Javert]

In 2008 we had severely different regulations .. assuming that a team is asked to draw a car for 2008 championship now, with all the new knowledge gained from teams in years, how would they look?

I think F-duct would have been useful
EBD? Would it be convenient to race? The extra weight would have been recovered by the gain of downforce and traction? Or were 2008's high exhausts the best solution?
What suspension style choose at the rear? Push or pull?
Nose and front wing style would change?
Diffusers may would have taken the DDD-style of 2009-10?
Wheelbase?

[Holm86]

Thats an interesting thought.

But i think the DDD's was a result of a hole in the 09 regulations. I dont think it would be possible under 08 regs.

And why do you believe the EBD would have a weight penalty??

[raymondu999]

But i think the DDD's was a result of a hole in the 09 regulations.

A very literal one!

It is indeed a very interesting thought though.

[n smikle]

DDD
F-duct
EBD with overrun (refuelling baby!)
Pull rods
slim line rear ends
High nose(?)
Wheel "spinners"
Split end-plate front wings.
Trailing fins on the rear end plate
Flexi wings

[Lycoming]

No point in split end plates, those work to direct air around the outside of the tyres, whereas the wing regulations from '08 make it more practical to direct air inside the frot tyres.

flexing wings were already in the game then, though not in the same way as they are now. I believe Mclaren had a wing that flexed to give better top speed. A bit different from the current approach but when your wing is already really close to the ground like now, small changes will give you a bigger gain in downforce from the ground effect. I think in '08 this would not be the way to go.

DDD (if legal), F duct, EBD, wheel rim covers would definitely be on there.

I'm not sure about pullrod. I know its a disadvantage if you want to run DDD, but I'm not familiar enough with the packaging on those cars to know if there's anything to be gained.

[n smikle]

You can split the end-plates on the inside to control the air in between the wheels - Just look on the Lotus (Renault).

[Sombrero]

But i think the DDD's was a result of a hole in the 09 regulations.

A very literal one!

It is indeed a very interesting thought though.

And then the teams were blowing hot and cold until the 2012 regs !

[Maelstrom]

It seems to me that the cars are becoming slower as time goes by. The fastest pole lap in Melbourne was in the 1:34:00's by Schumacher this year they didn't touch that.

Will the cars slow down more with the new engines in 2014?

[mike]

f-duct front and rear
EBD
off throttle blowing
from my understanding ferrari did test EBD in 2008 but they didn't have the map to work it properly

[krisfx]

I recall reading somewhere that they stopped using blown diffusers a bit before 08 because they really upset the balance and stability under the current aero regs.

Can't remember where I read it though

[raymondu999]

That's a long time back IIRC. Sometime in the Hakkinen championship years I think. By none other than Mr. A. Newey

[Gerhard Berger]

I recall reading somewhere that they stopped using blown diffusers a bit before 08 because they really upset the balance and stability under the current aero regs.

Can't remember where I read it though

Scarbs had a good blog about it. Ferrari were the first to move away from the blown diffuser in 98, exiting the exhausts over the engine cover. I think the move happened for a number of reasons. One is, as you say, the sensitivty to throttle positions. The second is that heat resistant materials were not as advanced back then, and the exhaust gases sometimes ended up deforming the rear suspension. Final reason is that the 98 regulations meant the engines had to move further forward, relative to the rest of the car. This meant, in order to blow the diffuser you needed longer exhaust pipes, which was not good for the engine (i think the engine works better at higher revs when the exhaust pipes are shorter - this article explains it in detail http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00360.html ).

It is interesting that Newey was the last designer to keep the blow diffuser, and it seems he grudgingly got rid of it at the request of Mario Illien. He was also the first to bring it back. He's never really produced a dominant car without it. He definitely seems to know how to exploit it.

[Gerhard Berger]

DDD
F-duct
EBD with overrun (refuelling baby!)
Pull rods
slim line rear ends
High nose(?)
Wheel "spinners"
Split end-plate front wings.
Trailing fins on the rear end plate
Flexi wings

Not sure how well pull rod would work at the rear with the old larger diffusers.

[raymondu999]

It is interesting that Newey was the last designer to keep the blow diffuser, and it seems he grudgingly got rid of it at the request of Mario Illien. He was also the first to bring it back. He's never really produced a dominant car without it. He definitely seems to know how to exploit it.

Was it on his Williamses? I'm quite sure the DC/Hakkinen McLarens had it

[Gerhard Berger]

It is interesting that Newey was the last designer to keep the blow diffuser, and it seems he grudgingly got rid of it at the request of Mario Illien. He was also the first to bring it back. He's never really produced a dominant car without it. He definitely seems to know how to exploit it.

Was it on his Williamses? I'm quite sure the DC/Hakkinen McLarens had it

Yeh though they were closer to the center of the car: