Picking a driver to pull performance out of a car

[Cam]

However if you're asking for a driver that will "be there" sort of "most of the time," then that's a whole different ball game.

That's probably a better question as it defines the topic question more.

Picking a driver to pull performance out of a car, with regards to who is getting the maximum (or as close to it as humanly possible) most (definitely not all) of the time.

All time: I still say Senna and not because he's an obvious choice, I genuinely believe he had a freakish quality to find somethign that wasn't there to anyone else.

Current crop: Hard to go past Alonso. He just keeps proving it doesn't he.

Edit: qualified the question.

[raymondu999]

Agreed - in proviso that the question is with regards to who is getting the maximum (or as close to it as humanly possible) most (definitely not all) of the time.

[djos]

djos - my point stands though. The thread is about a driver to really squeeze a car's 100% out - and part of that task is switching on tyres. And the balance of power between Mark and Seb shifts too much to truly call one better. In qualifying, hey were on par at BEST in 2010 - Seb better in 2009, Seb dominated in 2011, and Mark is better (in the qualifying sessions so far) in 2012. Both get outqualified by their teammates too often to really say they're getting the best out of their car.

Fair enuf, despite Webber being my favourite driver I do rate Alonso ahead of him in terms of sheer ability.

[raymondu999]

What drivers were considered very good for their time, but when the formula changed they were unable to cope with the changes in the formula?

Found the excerpt about Keke and Alain that I was looking for.

As ever, it all depends upon circumstance and conditions. Back in the turbo days, the oversteering Keke Rosberg could not hold a candle at McLaren to the understeering Alain Prost – and for John Barnard the team’s technical director of the time, the reason was very simple: “Alain would set the car up in a way that to any other driver would feel like it had massive understeer, but he had a way of getting the car into the corner early [with his overlapping of braking and cornering], which for a turbo was fantastic, because it meant he could get early on the power and we could give him some traction. Keke, by contrast, was last of the late brakers and really liked to turn the car very quickly. To do that you need a set-up that’s a bit light on rear grip –and that just wasn’t the way with these cars because it meant you didn’t have the traction to use all that huge power.”

[lebesset]

if you are talking about current drivers you can't look beyond alonso and hamilton ...which meets with general agreement it seems
however you have to go further back to find drivers who could extract the maximum from any style of setup , I suppose it isn't really necessary now with modern technology; what driver would adopt the jim clark methodology ...get the car setup to achieve it's maximum potential and drive in whatever style was required ....which is why people have memories of him driving wheels in line AND with the tail hanging out ...he was equally adept at both ; I suspect drivers from even older generations were equally adept at this , Fangio and Moss were reputed to be in this category

[johnny99]

I would rate Hamilton exceptional in a good car, but it the car is not performing, I don't think he is in the same league as Alonso

John

[raymondu999]

however you have to go further back to find drivers who could extract the maximum from any style of setup , I suppose it isn't really necessary now with modern technology

I beg to differ. There are circuits that probably favor a certain driving line and/or style more than they favor others. A Monaco, for example, would probably be more suited to a "rotate by the rear" driver rather than someone who leans on the fronts like a Button or a Kubica.

[Red Schneider]

Kubica

I hate to go ever-so-slightly off-topic but you've just reminded me that I think Kubica is overrated in this regard and indeed as a driver overall. In my opinion he's proven himself to be good but not clearly better than Rosberg for example. In 2010 people were suffering from a heavy dose of confirmation bias. Whenever Kubica stuck the car on the front row or podium (especially at a 'driver's track') everyone was like, "ooh, he's so good, he might even be the best driver out there," but all the times he finished 7th they conveniently forget about him until the next time he does well, so by the end of the year they have this image of a heroic Kubica dragging his car onto the podium in a herculean effort whereas in reality he was outscored by Rosberg and Massa, finishing 8th in the table.

I'm not saying he's bad. He's clearly very good. I'm just saying the hype was getting a little ridiculous.

/rant

[bhallg2k]

...Equally important is asking whether or not a driver can DEVELOP your car. A good development / test driver does not need to be able to drive the car at "100%". Even 99%. 98%. Arbitrarily draw the line wherever you want. The car isn't going to behave fundamentally any differently at +/- whatever small margin from "the limit." What's key is that this be broken down and explained clearly, concisely, and consistently.

That's an exceedingly rare talent.

Your candidates for this rare talent, then?

Alex Wurz. That was honestly the first name that came to mind when I initially saw this thread, because the question struck me as one related to the bigger picture of development. I just didn't know how to quantify a feeling based mostly on his stellar reputation as a test driver at McLaren, Williams and Honda/Brawn. But, in a world of mostly unsung heroes, his name was at least hummed, if you'll forgive the torturous metaphor.

I'm quite surprised to see that no one has mentioned Mario Andretti. I can't think of a more versatile driver. The sheer breadth of his success over many years across every top series is astonishing.

[xDama]

I would rate Hamilton exceptional in a good car, but it the car is not performing, I don't think he is in the same league as Alonso

John

I'd rate Hamilton very good in a good car, but when the car isn't performing, most of the times he isn't either. I thought Hamilton was exceptional in 2007-2008, but since 2009 I don't have quite the same feeling anymore. He can be exceptionally fast and flawless, but at the same time, he's getting more and more 'moderate' at races. My 2 cents though.

Alonso tops the charts to me on this one. Since 2008 he hasn't had a single car that was able to fight for the WDC. Still he fought for it in 2010/2011 and is leading in 2012. He destroyed practically every team-mate he had, despite Hamilton, but that had more to do with Mclaren than Alonso.

Especially this year, his performance is exceptional. I mean, by far the worst car of all the top teams, but he scored a win, podiums and is leading the championship...

I'd add Senna to this list too.

[Nando]

In today, Hamilton and Alonso.

Back then, Senna and Schumacher.

[prince]

True, Irvine was more responsible for evaluating the upgrades, esp aero, and generally not given enough credit for his work. On the other hand, Schumacher put them to very good use in the races. In his day there was no better man at dragging a bad car to a good finish. Of the present group I think Alonso is doing a similar amazing job. He can he hard to like, but difficult not to admire

John

In case of Irvine, I think it would be out of logic, when a driver contributes so much for development and when it comes to getting performance out of it, unable to do so. It essentially means that he would have rather been an engineer than an F1 driver. If Michael could go out with a car designed with someone else' inputs and could extract the best out of it, then it is Michael who stands out as a driver who could extract maximum out of a car.
After Irvine left, the car simply got better and better, which clearly means that it was always Michael who was there in development of a car and getting best out of it.

[Gridlock]

Because it's criminal that nobody has mentioned him yet, and because famously "you can't let him out in a bad car for more than a few laps because he'll just drive round the deficiencies without telling you they're there"...

Jim Clark

[marcush.]

I´m surprised nobody has mentioned Ronny Petterson who was famous for his lazy attitude in setting up the car and instead relying on his talent to drive around the problems.

I think real mastery is to know how your car should feel to allow you to drive at the outer rim of adhesion longer than anyone else but being able to switch your attitude and drive around -adapt your driving -when there´s no time for further modifications.
It´s certainly two sets of skills in my view at least.

Button seems to be someone who really needs his car to his preferences but when close he is just as quick as anyone out there.
On the other hand Alonso and Hamilton seem to be able to extract the max no matter how good the car is and don´t care if the thing is twitchy or behaving like a truck...

[n smikle]

I would like to add Adrian Sutil. He worked Magic in those Force Indias at times.