Ferrari F2012

[Crucial_Xtreme]

+1 X2, it also need to be crashed tested and for a change like this margin Ferrari's 2013 contender will suffer i belive. as it not only a new concept for Ferrari but for now when F2012 started to show its potential i dont think they will even tempted to think about this.

Another thing is that those floor even /might not work well with F2012 like they do in RB8, caz every bit of a car in F1 is purposefully created and they all are so integrated that sometimes they even create negative effect from a fairly good update and some times some negative effect create altogether a positive outcome i.e. lift created by the sidepod extension but which is negated by the amount of downforce they help to create..............

Agreed. And that's what many aren't thinking about. It's not often you can just bolt on something from one F1 car onto another and expect it to work straight away like it does on the original. Ferrari would have to use a different aero philosophy with how they're working the air which is a lot of work.

It took RB months to get this setup right and would take other teams just as long. I don't believe any team on the grid has this amount of time. Good call about the crash tests, totally slipped my mind and would indeed have to be done. Which is even more reason for Ferrari not to pursue this, IMHO. I think they should and will focus on how to optimize their current setup. It's not a bad car in the least and is only lacking a few tenths compared to the others. The F2012 is one of the better cars on the tyres too which is a good thing.
Will be interesting in seeing what upgrades are brought to Silverstone.

@Shelly Pierce or any of the other good aero guys:

What do you think about the Valencia aero updates? Namely the bargeboard vortex generators & the new scoop on the floor? How do you see these interacting with the air?

I thought we may see McLaren style VG's on top of the sidepods but there is two VG's by the mirrors which has been modified on Fernando's car to include the mirror mounting. What say you about this update as well? TIA.

[Kiril Varbanov]

@Shelly Pierce or any of the other good aero guys:

What do you think about the Valencia aero updates? Namely the bargeboard vortex generators & the new scoop on the floor? How do you see these interacting with the air?

I thought we may see McLaren style VG's on top of the sidepods but there is two VG's by the mirrors which has been modified on Fernando's car to include the mirror mounting. What say you about this update as well? TIA.

I'll share my two cents, although I won't label myself "aero guy":
1. The bargeboards design is certainly made in conjunction with how the flow interacts behind. From the two pictures I've seen it looks like the they worked exactly as expected - the flow-viz pattern was really smooth and predictable.
Note: the extensive use of flow-viz is a bit of sign for re-assurance of the CFD flow, especially on such elements which can be tested rather predictably.

2. The scoop which is mid-way through the floor - it has been introduced in Valencia, in Canada I'm absolutely sure that the floor was flat in that area.
The purpose of such design would be twofold:
2.1. to prevent the tire squirt, as the usual three slots ahead of the tires are not present in Valencia
2.2. to direct air under the sidepod (more inboard) and subsequently merge it with the flow coming from exhausts above. The design itself resembles the two consecutive shark fins on the side of the driver. The mirrors were also mounted ahead of those fins and I'm sure the move has its merit.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I'll share my two cents, although I won't label myself "aero guy":
1. The bargeboards design is certainly made in conjunction with how the flow interacts behind. From the two pictures I've seen it looks like the they worked exactly as expected - the flow-viz pattern was really smooth and predictable.
Note: the extensive use of flow-viz is a bit of sign for re-assurance of the CFD flow, especially on such elements which can be tested rather predictably.

2. The scoop which is mid-way through the floor - it has been introduced in Valencia, in Canada I'm absolutely sure that the floor was flat in that area.
The purpose of such design would be twofold:
2.1. to prevent the tire squirt, as the usual three slots ahead of the tires are not present in Valencia
2.2. to direct air under the sidepod (more inboard) and subsequently merge it with the flow coming from exhausts above. The design itself resembles the two consecutive shark fins on the side of the driver. The mirrors were also mounted ahead of those fins and I'm sure the move has its merit.

The 3 slots ahead of the rear tyre were used in Valencia. I figure the VG's on the bargeboard and the split sidepod wing is to direct air back towards the diffuser but was curious what Shelly & some of the others opinions are. Thanks mate.

[Kiril Varbanov]

The 3 slots ahead of the rear tyre were used in Valencia. I figure the VG's on the bargeboard and the split sidepod wing is to direct air back towards the diffuser but was curious what Shelly & some of the others opinions are. Thanks mate.

Directing air towards diffuser is almost always the final aim. The VG's aim would be, as their name suggest, to generate vortices, thus keep air flow energized, but also prevent flow separation and therefore point it somewhere.

BTW, I looked at the available pictures from Valencia, but either I'm blind (not impossible, 20 years behind computers are too much) or they are really aren't there. Or used on Massa, but not on Alonso?
Would you mind sharing a race picture? I'm talking about the 3 slits in front of the rear tires.

Certainly, I'll be glad to hear more opinions, also if someone can chime in about the rather conservative front wing developments.
BTW, here's a video from AMuS and Piola on the latest development iterations.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Directing air towards diffuser is almost always the final aim. The VG's aim would be, as their name suggest, to generate vortices, thus keep air flow energized, but also prevent flow separation and therefore point it somewhere.

BTW, I looked at the available pictures from Valencia, but either I'm blind (not impossible, 20 years behind computers are too much) or they are really aren't there. Or used on Massa, but not on Alonso?
Would you mind sharing a race picture? I'm talking about the 3 slits in front of the rear tires.

Certainly, I'll be glad to hear more opinions, also if someone can chime in about the rather conservative front wing developments.
BTW, here's a video from AMuS and Piola on the latest development iterations.

This picture is posted on the previous page. Fernando's car



Felipe's car

[alogoc]

Any one have a link for torrent download Valencia race English?

[PABLOEING]

Tomorrow .....aerodinamic test of Ferrari in IDIADA with the F2012 and Marc Gene

[alogoc]

Engine sound
RedBull
0.35 for Vettel, 1.16 Hamilton and 1.35 Alonso.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mKcTmZJVrA

[joeyg02]

First off, Crucial I must say you get some GREAT PHOTOS. Some of the best and most detailed I have ever seen. Are you a member of the team lol? If you aren't you could have fooled me with some of the shots you are getting and how quickly they are being posted also. You have great knowledge of the F2012 and I enjoy reading your posts.

One question I have: Does anyone have any idea of what the huge opening next to the exhaust tunnels could be? (looking from the left rear of the car in the picture Crucial posted of Alonso's car it's on the right side of the exhaust tunnel). I was thinking possibly an opening to create a low pressure area to possibly help direct the exhaust gases inward. BUT, im no expert on aerodynamics by any means. So could someone shed some light on that?

[alogoc]

First off, Crucial I must say you get some GREAT PHOTOS. Some of the best and most detailed I have ever seen. Are you a member of the team lol? If you aren't you could have fooled me with some of the shots you are getting and how quickly they are being posted also. You have great knowledge of the F2012 and I enjoy reading your posts.

One question I have: Does anyone have any idea of what the huge opening next to the exhaust tunnels could be? (looking from the left rear of the car in the picture Crucial posted of Alonso's car it's on the right side of the exhaust tunnel). I was thinking possibly an opening to create a low pressure area to possibly help direct the exhaust gases inward. BUT, im no expert on aerodynamics by any means. So could someone shed some light on that?

i think for two reasons 1 cooling and 2 creating vortexes than direct exhaust gases where they need to go!

[radosav]

Alonso’s tyres were shot at Valencia

Fernando Alonso’s tyres on his Ferrari dropped off yet again in the closing stages of the European Grand Prix although this time the Spaniard was able to hold on to his lead.The two-time world champion’s Pirellis degraded heavily at the preceding Canadian Grand Prix where Alonso lost the lead and eventually struggled to finish fifth.But he wasn’t worried at Valencia despite suffering from degradation about eight laps from the end.
“I said to the team ‘the tyres are finished, we need to do something’. They said: ‘wait one more sector because they are not quicker than you at this moment’,” Alonso said.
“The next sector they were the same as me. So they said: ‘wait one more lap to see how much quicker they are’ and the next lap they were the same time as us,” he continued. “Wait another lap and wait another and then it was three laps from the end and they were in the same lap times and we went until the end. But the tyres were as finished as in Canada but it was for everybody this time.”
http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/421269/Alonsos_tyres_were_shot_at_Valencia/

[Owen.C93]

First off, Crucial I must say you get some GREAT PHOTOS. Some of the best and most detailed I have ever seen. Are you a member of the team lol? If you aren't you could have fooled me with some of the shots you are getting and how quickly they are being posted also. You have great knowledge of the F2012 and I enjoy reading your posts.

One question I have: Does anyone have any idea of what the huge opening next to the exhaust tunnels could be? (looking from the left rear of the car in the picture Crucial posted of Alonso's car it's on the right side of the exhaust tunnel). I was thinking possibly an opening to create a low pressure area to possibly help direct the exhaust gases inward. BUT, im no expert on aerodynamics by any means. So could someone shed some light on that?

Source of 90% of hi res f1photos: http://www.formula1.com/gallery/

I doubt that hole will have any significant aero benefit, it's just fool cooling and seems about the best place they could put it since it will just be wasted space otherwise.

[flyboy2160]

...One question I have: Does anyone have any idea of what the huge opening next to the exhaust tunnels could be? (looking from the left rear of the car in the picture Crucial posted of Alonso's car it's on the right side of the exhaust tunnel). I was thinking possibly an opening to create a low pressure area to possibly help direct the exhaust gases inward. BUT, im no expert on aerodynamics by any means. So could someone shed some light on that?

That's probably the radiator air exit. It used to be an annulus around the exhaust pipe.

It would a lot of work for them to reroute that air into a Red Bull like aft cannon above the beam wing.

[motobaleno]

¿Is possibel a new floor like the Valencia RB8 in the F2012 in Ferrari for silverstone?

Almost anything is possible but not probable. I doubt it. It would mean a total change in bodywork & parts starting from the front wing all the way back to the rear wing. Almost a completely different car would be needed.

Ferrari clearly need to find a few tenths to be competitive with RB. The new FW would help. I;m very interested to see what our response is in Silverstone to the Valencia RB updates.

+1 X2, it also need to be crashed tested and for a change like this margin Ferrari's 2013 contender will suffer i belive. as it not only a new concept for Ferrari but for now when F2012 started to show its potential i dont think they will even tempted to think about this.

Another thing is that those floor even /might not work well with F2012 like they do in RB8, caz every bit of a car in F1 is purposefully created and they all are so integrated that sometimes they even create negative effect from a fairly good update and some times some negative effect create altogether a positive outcome i.e. lift created by the sidepod extension but which is negated by the amount of downforce they help to create..............

I'm surely aware of the fact that things are pretty complicated in F1 but I think that you guys make them MORE complicated of how actually are. I see some integration and interactions between different parts of cars but I think that this integration is not so overwhelming as you say.
beyond, are you sure that changing some features of a floor requires new crash tests? how can you be sure that the structural part of the floor is no more the same? also the different exhaust style seems to make the sidepods very different but actually all these kind of changes do not affect the structural parts and do not require crash tests

[Kiril Varbanov]

This picture is posted on the previous page. Fernando's car
...
Felipe's car...

Shame on me, obviously I didn't see it. Thanks and sorry for making you double-post.

I'm surely aware of the fact that things are pretty complicated in F1 but I think that you guys make them MORE complicated of how actually are. I see some integration and interactions between different parts of cars but I think that this integration is not so overwhelming as you say.

This is how it looks like from our comfortable chairs. I'd love to be able to run a CFD analysis of each of the new developments and backup my theories with some data. In fact, I've seen a simulation of a similar structure like the one in the middle of the lateral part of the floor, and it seemed that it simply retains the air sent to it inboard, which would otherwise flow attached to a flat structure, and separate at some point. This was a separate and similar part tested with straight air flow, whereas in our case we have bargeboards and turning vanes, so it's not the same.

In general, teams would always bring a complete package and not just separate thrown-in parts, or at least that's what the conventional wisdom says. Often we see those in-factory wind tunnel and possibly CFD stuff backed up by Friday Flow Viz.