Ferrari F138

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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ecapox
8
Joined: 14 May 2010, 21:06

Re: Ferrari F138

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I'd be curious as to how far back the pressure is released. Maybe helping energise the exhaust stream after it has his the rear floor area?

rapha-78
rapha-78
3
Joined: 14 Feb 2013, 21:54
Location: Paris

Re: Ferrari F138

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As we can see on this picture of the front wing of the ferrari f138, they decided to copy a red bull's solution because they divided the higher wing in two parts maybe to bring more clean air to the diffusor.
Image

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Ferrari F138

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bhallg2k wrote:
turbof1 wrote:So yes, a small correction on my part: it is a duct that leads into the cockpit (and perhaps further down to the kers), but the duct's main function is to improve flow under the nose, as I explained.
You described a sort of eddy generator, and I don't think that's how this works.

The angled wing pylons create a Venturi effect, which decreases static pressure under the nose.

This negates the slight lift created by the mandatory neutral center section of the wing.

The problem is that the boundary layer is susceptible to the effects of the adverse pressure gradient at the end of the Venturi (the area between Pos 2 and Pos 3 in the above diagram and denoted in the image below).

If the boundary layer separates as a result of that adverse pressure gradient, it increases parasitic drag and chokes flow, which I think was a serious issue with the F2012.

Not only did the team test different pylons last year...

(These were tested in-season, too.)

...the team also investigated and tested a myriad components to improve flow around the sidepods.


Because the effective height of the nose on the F138 is actually higher than that of the F2012, there's more air flow underneath it. I believe the slot "peels away" the boundary layer at the point of the adverse pressure gradient in order to prevent it from separating. In this way, the team gets the benefit of the Venturi effect (effective downforce) without any of the drawbacks experienced on the F2012 (chocked flow at the nose, sidepods, Coke bottle, etc), because it's damn difficult for air pressure to increase when its volume is simultaneously decreased.

You say this, but it has no bearing on what is happening on the car. Not because it can be said in coherent sentences with pieces of theory stitched together here and there, means what you say in a logical manner is what's logically happening on the car. What you say on each principle is correct in it's own isolation.
However for the car there's no evidence for adverse pressure gradient, no evidence on the boundary layer, surface roughness, etc.
You might as well be talking about the differences with boundary layer on red painted parts vs the white painted parts.
Without numbers or scaling, or propper use of the theory, isolated theories and principles cannot be lumped together to draw a conclusion.

All we can say at this stage, for lack of evidence and numbers, is that's a cooling hole. A hole much more effective at cooling a driver than if it was a smaller hole placed at the tip of the nose.
For Sure!!

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Ferrari F138

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ringo wrote:[...]

All we can say at this stage, for lack of evidence and numbers, is that's a cooling hole. A hole much more effective at cooling a driver than if it was a smaller hole placed at the tip of the nose.
Really? Have you seen precisely where inducted flow is vented to cool the driver, or have you only seen what appears to be an inlet in an area that merely suggests it serves to cool something somewhere? Speculation is speculation is speculation; you can't have it both ways.

(Personally, I think a champagne shower on the podium is easily the most effective way to cool a driver. That's just me, though.)

Relax, man. Have an elliptical drink or something. If any of us knew exactly what's going on, we'd be employed by a team. But, because we don't and are not, we share our ideas here.

prince
prince
6
Joined: 01 Mar 2012, 11:22

Re: Ferrari F138

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bhallg2k wrote: (Personally, I think a champagne shower on the podium is easily the most effective way to cool a driver. That's just me, though.)
[/quote]

LOL. I agree, that's the best way, we would know what that inlet is doing. :)

By the way, it's been really long time @bhallg2k since saw your last post. Welcome back, if you were on a sabbatical. :)

enz0
enz0
1
Joined: 12 Apr 2012, 15:55

Re: Ferrari F138

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I wouldn't mind comments from rosberg and others, cause this car is pretty much an f2012 with a new gearbox and rear wing, so i wouldn't call it the pace of the F138 yet

zioture
zioture
548
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 12:46
Location: Italy

Re: Ferrari F138

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I arrived very late with my illustrations video but I insert the same

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD8lpmbj ... re=mh_lolz[/youtube]

Image
Last edited by zioture on 15 Feb 2013, 18:57, edited 2 times in total.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: Ferrari F138

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What if they were actually blowing air out of that hole, stalling the airflow beneath the nose/tub and creating (more?) lift at the front of the car?

aral
aral
26
Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: Ferrari F138

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GrizzleBoy wrote:What if they were actually blowing air out of that hole, stalling the airflow beneath the nose/tub and creating (more?) lift at the front of the car?
How would they do that? To blow air against the slipstream, would require fans, which would be illegal. And why would they want to lift the nose, when all teams are trying to get DOWN force?

radosav
radosav
23
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: Ferrari F138

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gilgen wrote:
GrizzleBoy wrote:What if they were actually blowing air out of that hole, stalling the airflow beneath the nose/tub and creating (more?) lift at the front of the car?
How would they do that? To blow air against the slipstream, would require fans, which would be illegal. And why would they want to lift the nose, when all teams are trying to get DOWN force?
Everyone wants to lift the nose at the end of straightline where the downforce pushes the car to the ground with highest force because of highest speed !

aral
aral
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Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: Ferrari F138

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radosav wrote:
gilgen wrote:
GrizzleBoy wrote:What if they were actually blowing air out of that hole, stalling the airflow beneath the nose/tub and creating (more?) lift at the front of the car?
How would they do that? To blow air against the slipstream, would require fans, which would be illegal. And why would they want to lift the nose, when all teams are trying to get DOWN force?
Everyone wants to lift the nose at the end of straightline where the downforce pushes the car to the ground with highest force because of highest speed !
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

radosav
radosav
23
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: Ferrari F138

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Why did Mercedes stall front wing with their DDRS ? So that they cahave low ride height , to get more downforce from the floor!

sirexilon
sirexilon
3
Joined: 13 Jul 2003, 20:14

Re: Ferrari F138

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GrizzleBoy wrote:What if they were actually blowing air out of that hole, stalling the airflow beneath the nose/tub and creating (more?) lift at the front of the car?
Why would they lift the front end of the car? to loose Front grip so it's harder to turn?

Ferrari has a new KERS system this year and it is more compact and all the system and batteries are very close together in a smaller foot print than any other team, it could be that it needs more air to cool it down too.
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sirexilon
sirexilon
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003, 20:14

Re: Ferrari F138

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radosav wrote:Why did Mercedes stall front wing with their DDRS ? So that they cahave low ride height , to get more downforce from the floor!
Actually was to reduce drag on the front wing at high speed only or in high speed corners should stall partially the side f the wing that was not being effective, but it never really worked and it is also not legal now.
Life long F1 fan. Always learning about all the tech around my favorite sport.

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radosav
radosav
23
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: Ferrari F138

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sirexilon wrote:
radosav wrote:Why did Mercedes stall front wing with their DDRS ? So that they cahave low ride height , to get more downforce from the floor!
Actually was to reduce drag on the front wing at high speed only or in high speed corners should stall partially the side f the wing that was not being effective, but it never really worked and it is also not legal now.
I've read that with reduced drag they were able to lower ride height too !