is Lewis the best ever rookie?

[pRo]

Do you disagree with that then?.

i dont disagree he can go on and become a superstar but "the greatest ever"

give me a break, 3 races in and the F1 wankathon that is the media is getting all giddy about some kid finishing in positions expected of him

Sure, he's a young kid, he can become anything and we won't know it till some years go by. Personally, I don't believe he will become greatest ever, but it's possible.

Don't take it too seriously. Media loves him and McLaren knows it. Of course they will do everything they can to make the media love him even more. In the end it just means more media time for the team. Any other team would do that as well.

he's hardly Senna who IS the greatest

You got that right!

[waynes]

You got that right!

im wearing my Senna S t-shirt to work today

[Ciro Pabón]

Why do I have to repeat all the time that the greatest open-wheel driver in history is Ralph DePalma? I'm southamerican, for heaven's sake, but I'm not blind! Ayrton can be called, in all justice, the "greatest in recent history", (and then you have to talk about Michael Schumacher somehow, perhaps naming him the greatest "almost current" driver, I imagine) but Mr. Senna is not the greatest of all times. "All times" is a long proposition, mates. All times includes guys like Juan Fangio and Alberto Ascari, but it's Mr. DePalma who has statistics that no one dreams of getting close to, not even Schumi.

Don't they teach you history in school? Or did they only teach you about Waterloo and Second World War? Did you miss the most important history class, the class about racing history?

C'mon, the guy's career is just "a googling away"... just check how many races did he won and in how many races he competed. He even appears on Wikipedia, but Dennis David's historical site (a jewel in the Internet) has the best biography. NO, I'm not giving you any links: people here is bored of me giving references to Mr. De Palma. Besides, if you have a Senna shirt, you're smart enough to find the guy's history by yourself.

[Torso]

Greatest of all time is MSchumacher

Beat all the significant records
Set new standards for drivers with his fysical condition, motviation, technical insight and talent, able to be the best and to get the most out of himself, the car and his team in any conditions

Note that he even competed with Senna and beat him 2 out of the 3 seasons they raced from the start of the season.

It`s going to take many many years for anyone to challenge MSchumachers statue as the greatest f1 driver ever.

Personally I don`t think he`s ever going to lose that top spot in f1 history.

[Sawtooth-spike]

Greatest of all time is MSchumacher

Beat all the significant records
Set new standards for drivers with his fysical condition, motviation, technical insight and talent, able to be the best and to get the most out of himself, the car and his team in any conditions

Note that he even competed with Senna and beat him 2 out of the 3 seasons.

It`s going to take many many years for anyone to challenge MSchumachers statue as the greatest f1 driver ever.

Personally I don`t think he`s ever going to lose that top spot in f1 history.

He beat him once in 92, by 3 points.

and in 94 Senna died i hardly class that as beating him.

I really wish i could find a why of ignoring your posts

[Ciro Pabón]

I respectfully disagree, Torso. Michael Schumacher is, as you state correctly, the guy with the best statistics in F1. But he has no the best all time statistics in open wheel racing, as I said. All time is a long time, my friend.

If you say that Ferrari has the best stats in F1 is OK with me. But if you proclaim them the best marquee of all times, then some people will remind you, cordially, that you seem to know nothing about Bugatti.

Simple: Ralph DePalma competed in 2,889 races. He won 2,557.

There is no hope for Schumacher nor Hamilton against DePalma stats.

[DaveKillens]

Personally I don`t think he`s ever going to lose that top spot in f1 history.

Let the record also show that M Schumacher is/was the most penalized and fined driver in F1 history.
If you're going to go by records, don't just select a few just because some don't agree with your opinion. Opinions have no place when it comes to facts and records.

[pRo]

Interesting name Ciro, shame there's not too much about him online. Are there any books or documents about him?

Greatest of all time is MSchumacher

Note that he even competed with Senna and beat him 2 out of the 3 seasons.

How did you calculate that?

1991, Schumi 14th, Senna 1st
1992, Schumi 3rd, Senna 4th
1993, Schumi 4th, Senna 2nd

Seems to me like Senna beat Schumi 2 out of the 3 seasons. If you wish to include the 1994 when Senna died, that makes it 2/4 both ways.


And if you go on from that, does it make Alonso even better than Schumi, cause he beat Schumi in the last two seasons?

[DaveKillens]

Try this one for size if you choose to measure a driver by statistics
http://atlasf1.autosport.com/99/apr21/table5.html

[Torso]

Interesting name Ciro, shame there's not too much about him online. Are there any books or documents about him?

Greatest of all time is MSchumacher

Note that he even competed with Senna and beat him 2 out of the 3 seasons.

How did you calculate that?

1991, Schumi 14th, Senna 1st
1992, Schumi 3rd, Senna 4th
1993, Schumi 4th, Senna 2nd

Seems to me like Senna beat Schumi 2 out of the 3 seasons. If you wish to include the 1994 when Senna died, that makes it 2/4 both ways.


And if you go on from that, does it make Alonso even better than Schumi, cause he beat Schumi in the last two seasons?

1991 does not count as MS was only thrown into first a back of the grid Jordan then a mid-grid Benetton while AS was in the best car with years and months of prep-work to have that package suited to him. It was not a contest....still MS made such a huge impression that AS made serious comments about being worried about this "growing problem" from Germany..
1992 was MS rookie-season but well prepared and with a car he was familiar with yet still a mid-grid package compared to the McLaren. But they both started from the race 1 and made it a full season and MS beat AS.
1993 the chassis of McLaren with ARS was superiour to the Benetton.
A full season and AS came out on top.
1994 the superiour power of Renault was not enough for AS to keep up with MS in the races. And even thoigh AS made a fatal error driving to fast on cold tires with low tire-pressure the 3 GP`s showed MS was quicker on race day.

That makes 2 out of 3 in MS favour. And from MS career the conclution that he has earned the nick "rainmaster" as did AS in his pre-Schumacher days.
And when adding that in the records MS leads AS all the way the conclution is clear and simple:

The greatest ever f1 driver is MSchumacher.

Not the greatest Indy-car driver, not the greatest DTM driver, not the best WRC driver, not the greatest NAScar driver, not the greatest MOTO GP rider or the greatest 100m runner...etc etc

But who cares...this is F1 we`r talking about...and in F1 MSchumacher stands ALONE at the top.

Alonso is not in the contest, he had the advantage of superiour machinery for a couple of seasons but still MS lost to technical problems. I am not saying Alonso is a bad driver, I am just realistic enough to what he did not deliver prior to having a superiour car...

MSchumacher never let a bad car stop him from fighting for racewins and championships. Most of MSchumacher most memorable drives was delivered in inferiour machinery.

[Sawtooth-spike]

MSchumacher never let a bad car stop him.

other than 2005, 1999,1996?

I like that fact you can exclude 1991 because he was in a jordon (oh i forgot a bad car never let him down), then he moved to benneton to finsh the season. But u include the year when Senna died, I think somebody driving a jordon is going to get a better result than somebody who is dead?

Sorry Other forum users, This is not an anti schumi rant, just the total miss use of infomation is something that bugs me. We get enought of this stuff from our leaders.

[mx_tifoso]

@ Torso:

You should probably stop and call it a day for your rant on MSchumacher being the best motorsport driver ever. There is no point in continuing this nonsense and never ending discussion. This may surprise you because I am a MSchumacher fan and was/am very sad when he drove his last race in Sao Paolo. Considering I am a huge fan of his, I also know he is not the best ever, to be honest, when a discussion topic is about someone being the best ever no one is ever going to agree, for the most part anyways. So lets continue with the topic at hand, it being about Hamilton possibly being the "best ever rookie".

-Mx_tifosi

[wazojugs]

Aaaaarrrggghhhh please stop, I am losing the will to live!


Prost was the best....

[pRo]

1991 does not count as MS was only thrown into first a back of the grid Jordan then a mid-grid Benetton

MSchumacher never let a bad car stop him.

Sorry, but that's just hilarious!


mx_tifosi is right, we should get back to the topic.

[mx_tifoso]

1991 does not count as MS was only thrown into first a back of the grid Jordan then a mid-grid Benetton

MSchumacher never let a bad car stop him.

Sorry, but that's just hilarious!


mx_tifosi is right, we should get back to the topic.

Thanks pRo, that contradictory statement by Torso is why this thread should get back on topic.
I'm a MS fan, but I'm definately not blinded by being so.