Mclaren Honda 2015

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turbof1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Do not forget: they only have 4 PU's for the whole season, broken down in 6 parts. Parts that break down aren't allowed to be repaired in general (only small things are) and parts that receive updates require a new part to be inserted. No chance that Mclaren can do this season with just 4 pieces of each part.

So basically they are double screwed: early in the season having the unraceable reliability, and later on with penalties.
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lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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turbof1 wrote:Do not forget: they only have 4 PU's for the whole season, broken down in 6 parts. Parts that break down aren't allowed to be repaired in general (only small things are) and parts that receive updates require a new part to be inserted. No chance that Mclaren can do this season with just 4 pieces of each part.

So basically they are double screwed: early in the season having the unraceable reliability, and later on with penalties.
if parts fail they can update them for something more reliable , can they not ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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turbof1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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lebesset wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Do not forget: they only have 4 PU's for the whole season, broken down in 6 parts. Parts that break down aren't allowed to be repaired in general (only small things are) and parts that receive updates require a new part to be inserted. No chance that Mclaren can do this season with just 4 pieces of each part.

So basically they are double screwed: early in the season having the unraceable reliability, and later on with penalties.[/quote
]
if parts fail they can update them for something more reliable , can they not ?
They are allowed to change the design, but it still requires you to insert a new part of the same type.

For instance they make changes to the MGU-K. That does require to swap the old spec MGU-K to be switched for the updated one, which means the FIA will tick that off as a second MGU-K inserted.
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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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This is copy-pasted from the User WitnessX over at the Autosport Forum MP4-30 Thread. They are having the same discussion.
5.22 Replacing power unit parts :
Refer to the table in Appendix 2 of these regulations.
The parts listed as “EXC” in the table referred to above may be changed without incurring a penalty under Article 28.4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations. If changing any of these parts involves breaking a seal this may be done but must be carried out under FIA supervision. Any parts changed may only be replaced by parts homologated in accordance with Appendix 4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations.According to the tech. regulations...

(see Appendix 2 first table, column "5.22 Seal Perim")
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... -12-03.pdf

My understanding is that if it is excluded then they just have to declare the re-designed item as the current homologated part (whether it's token or via reliability is irrelevant).

AFAIK the rules do not restrict on using PU parts consecutively so they can use their allotment ad-hoc throughout their year. This means they can decide use another ICE whenever they want and use the old one for just Friday practices for example.
So they should be able to make improvements without having Penalties. I'm sure they won't make the 4 PU Limit but that could make it a lot less worse.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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turbof1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Thunders wrote:This is copy-pasted from the User WitnessX over at the Autosport Forum MP4-30 Thread. They are having the same discussion.
5.22 Replacing power unit parts :
Refer to the table in Appendix 2 of these regulations.
The parts listed as “EXC” in the table referred to above may be changed without incurring a penalty under Article 28.4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations. If changing any of these parts involves breaking a seal this may be done but must be carried out under FIA supervision. Any parts changed may only be replaced by parts homologated in accordance with Appendix 4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations.According to the tech. regulations...

(see Appendix 2 first table, column "5.22 Seal Perim")
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... -12-03.pdf

My understanding is that if it is excluded then they just have to declare the re-designed item as the current homologated part (whether it's token or via reliability is irrelevant).

AFAIK the rules do not restrict on using PU parts consecutively so they can use their allotment ad-hoc throughout their year. This means they can decide use another ICE whenever they want and use the old one for just Friday practices for example.
So they should be able to make improvements without having Penalties. I'm sure they won't make the 4 PU Limit but that could make it a lot less worse.
I'll list the exclusions:
-Wastegate, Pop-off valve or similar
-PU Engine air inlet system from plenum entry to cylinder head (e.g. plenum, trumpets, throttles)
-PU exhaust system from the engine exhaust flange up to but not including the turbine or wastegate exit tail-pipe
-PU mounted fuel system components: (e.g. High Pressure fuel hose, fuel rail, fuel injectors, accumulators)
-PU mounted electrical components (e.g. wiring loom within legality volume, sensors, actuators, ignition coils, alternator, spark plugs)
-All PU coolant pumps, oil pumps, scavenge pumps, oil air separators and fuel high pressure pumps (delivering more than 10bar) including any of the following associated components: motors, actuators, filters, brackets, supports, screws, nuts, dowels, washers, cables, oil or air seals. All tubes or hoses between components of the PU that are not described by line 26. Excludes hydraulic pumps and ERS parts described in line 9.
-Cooling pumps (and associated motors, actuators, associated filters, brackets, support, screws, nuts, dowels, washers, cables, tubes, hoses, oil or air seals) partly or wholly for ERS components not mandatorily included in the PU legality volume.
-Main PU oil tank, catch tanks, and any breather system connected to them and associated filters, brackets, support, screws, nuts, dowels, washers, cables, tubes, hoses, oil or air seals
-MGU-K mechanical power transmission components and mounting accessories
-MGU-H mechanical power transmission components and mounting accessories
-ES excluding parts defined in Article 5.4.3
(5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg)
-Wiring between any ECU and phases of MGU-K
-Wiring between any ECU and phases of MGU-H
-Wiring between ECU and ES
-Brackets, supports, screws, nuts, dowels, washers or cables associated to the parts listed in line 20.
(Line 20 Any ECU or associated device containing programmable semiconductors or containing high power switching devices. This includes, but is not limited to, MGU-K control unit, MGU-H control unit, injector control unit, ignition control unit, voltage regulator, intelligent sensors and actuators containing complex electronics. This excludes associated brackets, supports, screws, nuts, dowels, washers or cables. Excludes Standard ECU and FIA sensors.)
-Standard ECU.
-Any actuators needed to make the PU function at all times. (except specific exclusions)
-Intake upstream of compressor inlet up to and including the air filter.
-Heat Shields and associated mounting hardware.
-Water system accumulators
-Heat exchangers and their associated accessories. (included but not limited to tubes, hoses, supports, brackets and fasteners)
-Hydraulic system (e.g. pumps, accumulators, manifolds, servo-valves, solenoids, actuators) other than servo valve(s) and actuator(s) for PU control.
-Hydraulic system servo valve(s) and actuator(s) for PU control.
-Fuel feed pumps delivering less than 10 bars and their associated accessories (included but not limited to tubes, hoses, supports, brackets and fasteners).
-Any ancillary equipment associated with the PU air valve system such as regulators or compressors.
-Exhaust beyond turbine exit and WG exit and associated brackets, support, screws, nuts, dowels, washers or cables.
-Studs used to mount PU to chassis or gearbox.
-Flywheel, clutch and clutch actuation system between the PU and the gearbox.
-Liquids.
-Ballast mounted on the PU up to 2kg. This is permitted (subject to Article 4.4) but any in excess of 2kg will be removed before measuring PU weight.
-Ballast mounted on the PU in excess of 2kg.
-Wiring harnesses which are not ordinarily part of a power unit.

In short and in general, the core pieces of the PU aren't allowed to be normally changed. Thinks like pumps, reservoirs, wiring, supports, actuators, etc. are.
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lebesset
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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my head is starting to hurt :(
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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mikeerfol
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Hmmm I wonder if this post should go to the livery thread? Maybe a hint? :?:

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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[-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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bigblue
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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OK ... can some one enlighten me what's so remarkable ? A big tarp-type thing over some freight for the GP, with a McLaren logo on it ... because it's McLaren freight. And ?

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Mesteño
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Joined: 03 May 2012, 12:42

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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I would love a Black and White McLaren.

alexx_88
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Joined: 28 Aug 2011, 10:46
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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That cover seems to have had better days, so I'm pretty sure there isn't anything new in it.

radosav
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Top Gear interview with Button!
TG: How is the Honda powerplant compared to Mercedes' from last year?
JB: I'm not going to compare, but the most important thing for us is we work so closely with Honda, whereas last year it was a tricky situation; Mercedes knew we were going elsewhere so not everything was shared. The big thing now is we get to see all the data, such as the power curve, and we can adjust the pedal's torque map, which is really good for us, as we can make it more drivable. As far as I know mine and Fernando's setups are really similar, which is great because you don't want to be going in different directions.

lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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the thing that worries me is the fact that , even if the car is competitive with mercedes , both button and alonso are good , but not outstanding , qualifiers whereas hamilton and rosberg seem to be in the top rank
my memories of alonso winning the WDC ar of him starting behind but the renault being exceptional at getting off the line , never understood why it was quite that good , rumours of illegal devices seem hard to believe , maybe the michelin tyres being carefully designed to the car's needs had something to do with it ...we will never know ; recent ferrari's were also quicker off the line than in the race as well !
we shall see ......hoping for more competition at the front asap
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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AnthonyG
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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If Magnussen drives Australia, does that mean McLaren can field an extra engine?
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

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