last pit of Massa

[DaveKillens]

If Massa had conveniently run wide and slow, and allowed Kimi to pass, then it would have been too obvious. But since Massa came into the pits, and in a way penalized himself, it's hard to cry foul. I watched the Ferrari pit stops on a race replay, and both cars were in synch in the first three stops, each coming in close together and each getting relatively the same amout of time in pit stops. If Kimi had been able to run the rest of the race after his third pit stop, then Massa should have been able to also.

[Rob W]

.. I see what you mean but at the end of the day their embarassment for even considering anything other than full wets should serve as punishment enough.

True... I agree. The mistake of tires alone is an advertisement to Ross Brawn to come home.

Rob W

[FLC]

If Massa had conveniently run wide and slow, and allowed Kimi to pass, then it would have been too obvious. But since Massa came into the pits, and in a way penalized himself, it's hard to cry foul. I watched the Ferrari pit stops on a race replay, and both cars were in synch in the first three stops, each coming in close together and each getting relatively the same amout of time in pit stops. If Kimi had been able to run the rest of the race after his third pit stop, then Massa should have been able to also.

I could tell you what Jean Todt told Jonathan Noble from autosport: "If you take your piece of paper and write you will understand very clearly. I'm sure you can manage", but you seem not to be able to do the math, so lets go through this together (please don't take this personally):

First round of stops: Massa in on lap 2, Kimi on lap 3.
Second round: Kimi in on lap 15, Massa on lap 16. So far so good.

Now the tricky part: Massa goes in for his drive through on lap 21, Kimi stays out until lap 41 and from there to the finish. Massa isn't allowed to take fuel on his drive through - I'm sure you knew that - which means he has to get in again, to get even with Kimi (to be in sync, as you put it), so he goes in on lap 59. This means that Massa was on a 43 laps stint, which I'm sure you'll agree is reasonable, to say the least.

Had he not pitted he would be doing over 50 laps without refueling, and which on that JT said: "Simply, we don't have the fuel tank capacity which is allowing us to do 52 laps. That was the only reason".

It's not that complicated, Dave, but I guess when you are driven by certain motives, even the brightest man will fail.
Again, I hope you won't take this personally, I'm just trying to make a general point. Don't lose your reason just to make Ferrari look guilty yet again.

[DaveKillens]

That's the fun part of being human. Two people can see the same event, yet come away with two distinct impressions. I saw my race, and my opinion is not clouded by a red mist. Just because Todt says something, it doesn't mean it's gospel.

[Keitho]

Remember we are talking about (FIA Ferrari) or (Ferrari FIA) I forget which it goes, they seem to get away with almost anything. You can’t trust Todt as far as you could throw him. Perhaps that is why Montezemolo is keen to see backend.
If Ferrari said WHITE was BLACK most of the idiots involved with F1 would believe them.
How come Kimi had enough fuel and Massa didn’t I watched a replay and the fuel rig seemed to be on for the same amount of time for both drivers.
Almost everyone that saw there tactics know what went on.
I have nothing against Kimi or Massa I just can’t stand the ongoing Ferrari’s dubious tactics.

[megz]

If Ferrari=FIA or FIA=Ferrari, then Ferrari would'nt have been called in in the first place. Think about it.

I'm not sure if there is a rule or not. It appears the FIA did tell all teams to be on Extreme Wets, but JT says they got it after the race start (I find this hard to believe) but unless there was a safety concern I dont see why they couldn't have taken the (rather ridiculous in hindsight) gamble of Intermediates.

[Principessa]

It was obvious that Massa let Kimi pass him by going into the pit, allowing Raikkonen to come closer to Alonso in the standings. Massa has been given the number 2 position at Ferrari for these final three races of the season (Japan, China, Brazil) and I'm sure he didn't complaint about it when he got out of the car. He is supporting Kimi in his hunt for the Championship title as his chance of winning it has been over for a while now.

Of course Ferrari couldn't say to Felipe to let Kimi pass him as this is against the rules, so a pit was the obvious decision.

[Rob W]

Update.. FIA make a statement about Ferrari not getting the "full wets" message.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 40,00.html

Rob W

[modbaraban]

Of course Ferrari couldn't say to Felipe to let Kimi pass him as this is against the rules, so a pit was the obvious decision.

Why? They have been making it look natural for 5 years now.

[FLC]

Why? They have been making it look natural for 5 years now.

Exactly. On one hand you people believe Ferrari are so vicious in pursuing their goals, that they would do anything to get them, and will always get away with it because the FIA is on their side. Yet when it suits you, you are easily admitting that they would go out of their way to get the same result? Which is it exactly?

It was obvious that Massa let Kimi through? Do you have some facts? The math is still that difficult?
Ignore what JT said. Take a look at the lap charts of all the drivers here.
You really expect Massa to do a 52 laps stint?! All the way from lap 16 to lap 67? Because the Ferrari has a fuel tank that suits your ridiculous theories? Show me one driver who did more than 45 laps without refueling, just one.

It's pathetic how your hatred has made you blind!

[mep]

I am on the exactly same theory like FLC.

And even If they did change position?
Tell me what is bad in it?
Otherwise it would be stupid to hold the positions like they are.

[modbaraban]

I am on the exactly same theory like FLC.

And even If they did change position?
Tell me what is bad in it?
Otherwise it would be stupid to hold the positions like they are.

It sounds like the only team doing it (when necessary) is Ferrari
Check the latest Briatore interview.

[Belatti]

When I see F1 races, I use to have a big bunch of numbers in my head, and I can tell you that Massa had to stop (in fact I was surprised cause he was out too much time), even without looking at FLC´s lap charts.

Beyond that, Massa´s last stop was arround 5 secs, if the theory of the Anti-Ferrari fans was true, why wouldn´t he stop just a couple of secs instead of 5?

[bizadfar]

yarbles, Massa could have oh so easily let Kimi through by 'sliding wide' at a corner and no one would have batted an eyelid. Instead he ran low on fuel (perhaps Ferrari expected a red flag and tried to make sure he was leading when that flag came out?) and that allowed 3 cars through. Ferrari surely would not allow 3 cars to overtake when they could have made 1 look natural.

Exactly, all you saying it was team management is outright 110% bull.

You know these days they give an "OPTION" to drivers'. Eg "Massa, Kimi is behind you, please move over, the decision is yours" If they make it sound like that, nothing wrong it, the driver executed his option without direct force from the team. All suggesting the pit was to do just that, are.. I'm sorry; stupid.

I have two comments about the race:

1 - Massa seemed to pass someone on the last lap by driving completely off the track? I watched the reply and it seems he did. Surely he can't keep that place?

2 - If every team was told to use full wet tires, and surely the FIA has a way of communicating this and receiving confirmation from every team, shouldn't Ferrari be excluded from the results for ignoring the race director? No-one else gets a second chance when they ignore the set black/white rules and directions from the race director. (E.g. Montoya being black-flagged the other year for exiting the pits as the pit-exit showed a red light)

Rob W

The fact is that, those are NOT in the set of black/white rules. Not even in the gray area.

[mep]

It sounds like the only team doing it (when necessary) is Ferrari
Check the latest Briatore interview.

Renault in China last year?