2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[ME4ME]

I just read the article on Autosport+ as well. Must say it was worth the read (for once).

So basically there are two interesting points, which in my opinion show there is still hope they can have a reasonable season.
- In testing they were way down on power, because they had to run in a conservative power-state. Fixing the known unreliabilty issues will enable Honda to turn up the power substantially. They have already stated that some "counter meassures" will be in place for Australia, so if no further issues present themselves, from an PU point they might make a great step forward.

- Secondly, if Mclaren really can bring one second through aero performance, than that is great. You can argue that other teams will not stay still for long and introduce upgrades themselves, realistically only the big-3 have resources to match what Mclaren is doing. The others should in time fall back relative to Mclaren.

[proteus]

You two know who really knows? McLaren and Honda - so until they start talking EVERYONE is guessing.

As for the livery, it's simple: we're talking about it, so it worked.

No it didn't work. We'd be talking about it no matter what.

Will we remember it in 10 yrs. no.

This isn't a classic it's an indicator of the lack of vision and direction at the very highest levels of the team.

ZB signed off on this eyesore, no one else. let that be an indicator of things to come.

What did u honestly expect? I hope the answer is not red/white. Did u mean original Mclaren color? - all white with green nosecone and line from the nose to the steeringwheel? Or fully red car which u would probably debunk as a Ferrari clone?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the livery, it has the orange and it has black (which allways fits perfectly with the orange), there is even a freakin kiwi and swooshes. So what do u want? Please, take a pencil, crayons or a paint program and show us youre vision of a perfectly colored and designed Mclaren - and dont post Sean Bulls designs or designs of others - show youre genious interpretation of a new livery.

[GoranF1]

I just read the article on Autosport+ as well. Must say it was worth the read (for once).

So basically there are two interesting points, which in my opinion show there is still hope they can have a reasonable season.
- In testing they were way down on power, because they had to run in a conservative power-state. Fixing the known unreliabilty issues will enable Honda to turn up the power substantially. They have already stated that some "counter meassures" will be in place for Australia, so if no further issues present themselves, from an PU point they might make a great step forward.

- Secondly, if Mclaren really can bring one second through aero performance, than that is great. You can argue that other teams will not stay still for long and introduce upgrades themselves, realistically only the big-3 have resources to match what Mclaren is doing. The others should in time fall back relative to Mclaren.

Yes its a good read, the 1 sec from Mclaren can come from other things like gearbox, suspension etc. not only aero.

[Manoah2u]

I just read the article on Autosport+ as well. Must say it was worth the read (for once).

So basically there are two interesting points, which in my opinion show there is still hope they can have a reasonable season.
- In testing they were way down on power, because they had to run in a conservative power-state. Fixing the known unreliabilty issues will enable Honda to turn up the power substantially. They have already stated that some "counter meassures" will be in place for Australia, so if no further issues present themselves, from an PU point they might make a great step forward.

- Secondly, if Mclaren really can bring one second through aero performance, than that is great. You can argue that other teams will not stay still for long and introduce upgrades themselves, realistically only the big-3 have resources to match what Mclaren is doing. The others should in time fall back relative to Mclaren.

Yes its a good read, the 1 sec from Mclaren can come from other things like gearbox, suspension etc. not only aero.

floor looked too plain to be 'the real deal' too, so i suspect that will make a huge difference too, especially in regards to how it will influence the overall package including diffuser and front wing (well, front wing will play a good part in directing air to the floor offcourse). did Mclaren run a Twing? i dont think i noticed that. obviously that isn't worth a few seconds but it might help them even more in corners.

let's hope they can lit up the candle a good amount more in Australia next week and make some progress.

a question though; i assume i'll answer my own question: they are only to allow 4 engines during a full season (or 5?).
but, are they essentially free to do whatever they want during friday practice, or is that restricted too - i remember reading something a few years back about more restrictions in what they are allowed to do but i might remember that incorrectly.

hence, if friday practice doesn't count to that regard, can they theoretically spoon in an engine to test and try so they can do whatever they want at the morning, then come back in, change the engine for another one, and then test that one out, and then at the end of the day when day is done, mount one of the 4 engines they are restricted to use and use it for qually and race?

in other words, is there the possibility to test a power unit and see if it's beneficial? for example, Honda has managed to pinpoint the problem and have rapidly made a -temporal?- solution that will have the engine run a fair amount better than it will do now, untill they have profesionally sorted out the issue and then mount that one in a couple of races?

[Singabule]

Thanks Goranf1. But no way the power deficit Last year is 80hp, more like 40ish to me. Indeed, they still faaarrrr behind this year, with TJI/CVCC and engine mapping is a big headache for them. Imagine they must recalculate ignition timing every different RPM and throttle position, and develop AI like merc has. Even you have Tianhe2 supercomputer its mean nothing compared to experience. Surely everybody know that becoming single team supplier never helps and RD should know that. Combine with New McLarenF1 management that is very inpatient, Mr. B-mouth, Hasegawa san submissive approach, so that all of fingers pointing to honda. In fact MCL is responsible with their decision and action too starting with recall honda back to F1 too hurry (2013) while others develop their engine in 2011. The biggest mistake is when MCL is not approaching marussia while in mclaren garage. At least if you dont want to test or become honda's specimen in developing their engine, you should pay somebody to do that. It is also bullshit that others dont have problem in developing their engine, with RBR bashing renault, Ferrari TC problem (their TC is not sophisticated compared to merc), and merc confirm that their layout is the most difficult one, and honda adding several complexity compared to merc! Surely the other manufacturers dont dare to do that. Yes, all of this make honda to put a biiiggg gamble with their New engine. I know only honda's employee that know how much effort and cost in developing that engine, and I bet, consultant cost has a big portion of it!

[stuartpengs]

a question though; i assume i'll answer my own question: they are only to allow 4 engines during a full season (or 5?).
but, are they essentially free to do whatever they want during friday practice, or is that restricted too - i remember reading something a few years back about more restrictions in what they are allowed to do but i might remember that incorrectly.

hence, if friday practice doesn't count to that regard, can they theoretically spoon in an engine to test and try so they can do whatever they want at the morning, then come back in, change the engine for another one, and then test that one out, and then at the end of the day when day is done, mount one of the 4 engines they are restricted to use and use it for qually and race?

in other words, is there the possibility to test a power unit and see if it's beneficial? for example, Honda has managed to pinpoint the problem and have rapidly made a -temporal?- solution that will have the engine run a fair amount better than it will do now, untill they have profesionally sorted out the issue and then mount that one in a couple of races?

Engine allocations cover the entire weekend. FP1, FP2, FP3, Qualifying and Race all have to be run under the allotted restriction of 4 sets of PU components.

[Singabule]

How about running different spec for Stoffel and Alo? Still within rule?

[diffuser]

a question though; i assume i'll answer my own question: they are only to allow 4 engines during a full season (or 5?).
but, are they essentially free to do whatever they want during friday practice, or is that restricted too - i remember reading something a few years back about more restrictions in what they are allowed to do but i might remember that incorrectly.

hence, if friday practice doesn't count to that regard, can they theoretically spoon in an engine to test and try so they can do whatever they want at the morning, then come back in, change the engine for another one, and then test that one out, and then at the end of the day when day is done, mount one of the 4 engines they are restricted to use and use it for qually and race?

in other words, is there the possibility to test a power unit and see if it's beneficial? for example, Honda has managed to pinpoint the problem and have rapidly made a -temporal?- solution that will have the engine run a fair amount better than it will do now, untill they have profesionally sorted out the issue and then mount that one in a couple of races?

Engine allocations cover the entire weekend. FP1, FP2, FP3, Qualifying and Race all have to be run under the allotted restriction of 4 sets of PU components.

It's 4 each of the components that make up the PU.

"For the purposes of this Article 23.3, the power unit will be deemed to comprise six separate elements, the engine (ICE), the motor generator unit-kinetic (MGU-K), the motor generator unit-heat (MGU-H), the energy store (ES), turbocharger (TC) and control electronics (CE).

Each driver will therefore be permitted to use four of each of the above six components during a Championship season and any combination of them may be fitted to a car at any one time."

[diffuser]

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... artnership
So where do McLaren and Honda go now? What do McLaren want their engine suppliers to change?
TK: "I keep thinking about something Boullier, McLaren's racing director, told me at testing when I asked him about the design fault with the MCL32's oil tank which curtailed the new car's running on the first day.

"I suggested this kind of problem would normally be fixed in a computer simulation programme before the car even hits the track and he said 'yes, but if you change some processes maybe you can miss some of this'.

"I still wonder what he's referring to. Has Honda changed the way it works which might have allowed these problems to creep into their power unit?

I wonder if he's just referring to what Wazari said, they just kept developing too late. Not a change in a process as much as a PU update. You change something after the oil tank has been finalised that then cause the the oil tank issue or don't get to the simulation.

[Pierce89]

To Kasio: The media is not responsible for my beliefs. The whole point of tji is allowing higher compression/leaner mixtures. This creates conditions where, if the tji isn't working perfectly, you can have extreme knock. With the compression levels they're using this would create extreme vibrations. Also, Alonso quoted that they were very low on power leading me to believe the tji probably isn't working perfectly.If it weren't for these reasons, I'd see no reason to believe vibration is the issue. As an aside, no f1 team would spec woefully inadequate electronics, as they have too much knowledge and experience. Which leads me back to further believing there are abnormal things happening with the Honda PU, rather than, a wiring harness designed by the same group that designed the spec f1 electronics package.

[mclaren111]

I just read the article on Autosport+ as well. Must say it was worth the read (for once).

So basically there are two interesting points, which in my opinion show there is still hope they can have a reasonable season.
- In testing they were way down on power, because they had to run in a conservative power-state. Fixing the known unreliabilty issues will enable Honda to turn up the power substantially. They have already stated that some "counter meassures" will be in place for Australia, so if no further issues present themselves, from an PU point they might make a great step forward.

- Secondly, if Mclaren really can bring one second through aero performance, than that is great. You can argue that other teams will not stay still for long and introduce upgrades themselves, realistically only the big-3 have resources to match what Mclaren is doing. The others should in time fall back relative to Mclaren.

Can you link the article here please ??

[kaepernickus]

Can you link the article here please ??

It's Autosport+ as he said. Can't read unless you've a paid account.

[ME4ME]

Can you link the article here please ??

It's only accessable when having a Autosport Plus membership.
(I'm unwilling to copy-paste everything here. The authors should get paid for what they do. Get the membership if you think it's worth it.)

[torpor]

You two know who really knows? McLaren and Honda - so until they start talking EVERYONE is guessing.

As for the livery, it's simple: we're talking about it, so it worked.

No it didn't work. We'd be talking about it no matter what.

Will we remember it in 10 yrs. no.

This isn't a classic it's an indicator of the lack of vision and direction at the very highest levels of the team.

ZB signed off on this eyesore, no one else. let that be an indicator of things to come.

What did u honestly expect? I hope the answer is not red/white. Did u mean original Mclaren color? - all white with green nosecone and line from the nose to the steeringwheel? Or fully red car which u would probably debunk as a Ferrari clone?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the livery, it has the orange and it has black (which allways fits perfectly with the orange), there is even a freakin kiwi and swooshes. So what do u want? Please, take a pencil, crayons or a paint program and show us youre vision of a perfectly colored and designed Mclaren - and dont post Sean Bulls designs or designs of others - show youre genious interpretation of a new livery.

I think the problem is exactly the fact that SOMEBODY without talent and education in design took 'a pencil, crayons or a paint program' and Zac waved his livery draft through.
While Ron in the past definitely rejected hundreds of drafts by several highly capable and experienced designers until there was the perfect design – like every outstanding company leader would do.
And this is symptomaticly for everything happening at McLaren this year as I fear.

[Sonador]

I realy like the new livery, ok maybe the flat black should be white IMO.
It looks so mch better than the previous years.

But common guys have some faith in Mclaren, and also in Honda.
I know it is verry difficult, but i think this season is not lost and that we are going to see flashes of a competitive Mclaren Honda.

Mclaren have been in crisis mode even since Ron Dennis kicked Martin Whitmarsh out.
But even before that you could see some sloppy mistakes, look at pre season in 2011 for example.
Or the mistake to complety redesing a winning 2012 car for the 2013 season.
Or all the messy mistakes they made with Hamiltons car in 2012.
I think they were a bit to overconfident, and i hope they wel learn to be humble and true racers again.

I have huge respect for Ron Dennis, but i am glad that ZB has taken over.
A breath of fresh air was needed i think, and the new livery tands for that.
They wil learn, they wil stick together, and they wil win again.

I was really impressed by Honda in 2016, they are true racers, humble and hardworking.
I am sure they can sort stuf out dring the long season.

Keep faith guys, and keep your love for Mclaren and Honda.
Frustration is ok, but always remember that they once ruled the F1 world with 2 very special drivers.