Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[63l8qrrfy6]

Fun With Physics 1: Calculating the Honda F1 power gap to Mercedes
by Niels Heusinkveld

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-BSAcQb8zQ

This is wrong for reasons I've explained on this thread somewhere.
Numbers might be correct though !

[Sasha]

Glamorous: Mercedes will help Honda, Red Bull contrast

The Japanese House would accept the idea of ​​using external consultancy to enhance the power of its own power unit: Mercedes will be assisted by the Mercedes that is willing to sell Honda's technology on the electronic front and ...

As anticipated after the tests in Bahrain, Honda has decided to accept external consultations to try to solve the problems affecting its power unit. An already unexpected news, but nothing compared to the name of the facility that will provide the support needed by Japanese technicians: the Mercedes!

Between the two parties all the details of the counseling were defined (in the paddock it is said that it will be mainly focused on the electronic and hybrid front) but there is an unexpected clutter that must be overcome before the operation becomes operational.

This would be possible because in the intentions of the new rules the engines should not have a power gap greater than 3% compared to a reference track such as that of Barcelona. The FIA, therefore, would be evaluating the data collected in the first three GPs of the season: if there was a scissors greater than 3% (and between Mercedes and Honda is much bigger!) The Federation could take action with Equalize the values.

An adversary team (shown in Red Bull Racing) does not seem to be in favor of this partnership, appealing to intellectual property (the same as preventing it from selling a chassis to another team) even in the case of knowledge transfer on the front of the power unit.

But in fact this is an unusual case, and will be analyzed in the Strategy Group scheduled today.

It seems, however, that Red Bull has little hope of blocking the deal, as the Honda's stay in Formula 1 is dancing. In contravention of their guidelines, Japanese technicians have been humbled by accepting a solution for them Not easy, but that would ensure a future for a project that today is actually on a dead track.


https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/clamo ... ia-897520/

Brawn is behind this help for Honda for the good of F1.

[MrPotatoHead]

I think it's great that the powers that be agree in helping someone performing poorly for the sake of the sport.

[wuzak]

I think it's great that the powers that be agree in helping someone performing poorly for the sake of the sport.

Like they helped Manor?

[JonoNic]

I think it's great that the powers that be agree in helping someone performing poorly for the sake of the sport.

Like they helped Manor?

Berne was still in charge when Manor folded. Anyways the one is a team and the other is an PU supplier.

[GoranF1]

Glamorous: Mercedes will help Honda, Red Bull contrast

The Japanese House would accept the idea of ​​using external consultancy to enhance the power of its own power unit: Mercedes will be assisted by the Mercedes that is willing to sell Honda's technology on the electronic front and ...

As anticipated after the tests in Bahrain, Honda has decided to accept external consultations to try to solve the problems affecting its power unit. An already unexpected news, but nothing compared to the name of the facility that will provide the support needed by Japanese technicians: the Mercedes!

Between the two parties all the details of the counseling were defined (in the paddock it is said that it will be mainly focused on the electronic and hybrid front) but there is an unexpected clutter that must be overcome before the operation becomes operational.

This would be possible because in the intentions of the new rules the engines should not have a power gap greater than 3% compared to a reference track such as that of Barcelona. The FIA, therefore, would be evaluating the data collected in the first three GPs of the season: if there was a scissors greater than 3% (and between Mercedes and Honda is much bigger!) The Federation could take action with Equalize the values.

An adversary team (shown in Red Bull Racing) does not seem to be in favor of this partnership, appealing to intellectual property (the same as preventing it from selling a chassis to another team) even in the case of knowledge transfer on the front of the power unit.

But in fact this is an unusual case, and will be analyzed in the Strategy Group scheduled today.

It seems, however, that Red Bull has little hope of blocking the deal, as the Honda's stay in Formula 1 is dancing. In contravention of their guidelines, Japanese technicians have been humbled by accepting a solution for them Not easy, but that would ensure a future for a project that today is actually on a dead track.


https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/clamo ... ia-897520/

@facts only

[Andres125sx]

Formula 1's Strategy Group is set to face calls on whether it should intervene to help Honda make better progress, on the back of the Japanese manufacturer's difficult start to the 2017 season.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-s ... da-897438/

They only need to stop interfering on normal engineering process with their development restrictions. Then Honda would solve all their problems by theirselves.

No need to give them any unfair advantage, as people is wildly speculating around here , only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.

Honda is MUCH better at their job than FIA or the Strategy Group at theirs, they only need these bunch of bastards to stop tying Honda´s hands with development restrictions

If they want to limit costs, start limiting aero wich currently is free and astronomically expensive (and also the reason for limited overtaking), but the PU is the core of any motorsport and should be the last aspect to be restricted

[Facts Only]

Glamorous: Mercedes will help Honda, Red Bull contrast

The Japanese House would accept the idea of ​​using external consultancy to enhance the power of its own power unit: Mercedes will be assisted by the Mercedes that is willing to sell Honda's technology on the electronic front and ...

As anticipated after the tests in Bahrain, Honda has decided to accept external consultations to try to solve the problems affecting its power unit. An already unexpected news, but nothing compared to the name of the facility that will provide the support needed by Japanese technicians: the Mercedes!

Between the two parties all the details of the counseling were defined (in the paddock it is said that it will be mainly focused on the electronic and hybrid front) but there is an unexpected clutter that must be overcome before the operation becomes operational.

This would be possible because in the intentions of the new rules the engines should not have a power gap greater than 3% compared to a reference track such as that of Barcelona. The FIA, therefore, would be evaluating the data collected in the first three GPs of the season: if there was a scissors greater than 3% (and between Mercedes and Honda is much bigger!) The Federation could take action with Equalize the values.

An adversary team (shown in Red Bull Racing) does not seem to be in favor of this partnership, appealing to intellectual property (the same as preventing it from selling a chassis to another team) even in the case of knowledge transfer on the front of the power unit.

But in fact this is an unusual case, and will be analyzed in the Strategy Group scheduled today.

It seems, however, that Red Bull has little hope of blocking the deal, as the Honda's stay in Formula 1 is dancing. In contravention of their guidelines, Japanese technicians have been humbled by accepting a solution for them Not easy, but that would ensure a future for a project that today is actually on a dead track.


https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/clamo ... ia-897520/

@facts only

Well it's on the internet so it's definitely true!

I'll stick with my job and knowing what I know for now, rather than wasting my time trying to put any actual level headed information on.

[turbof1]

Again this is not the topic to discuss any external help unless specific changes have been shown on specific parts. However, and I say this mostly to put this discussion to rest, I agree with Facts Only. Trying to have external help from a competitor is like bringing in the Trojan Horse, on both sides. Do you think the Mercedes Board would agree with giving away vital information to not only a competitor in F1, but to a competitor on the roadcar market as well? Vice Versa next to the ambarassement and company damage this will deal, Honda will, as jokingly as that might seem, have particular secrets as well it does not wish to reveal.

So on one end you have a helping hand, but with all fingers inwards of the palm reluctant to give anything away, and the other end you have a trembling hand also clinged into a fist. Do you think anything productive is going to get out of that?

But Turbof1, surely they will give Honda extra development oppertunities to get them out of the slum?
Of course, but that will not happen until 2019. Why? All of it is covered under the sporting and technical regulations. Any change or exception for the next season has to be done before end March.

But Turbof1, changes are made in seasons already underway all the time!
Why yes, this is possible. There's however a 'small' catch: all teams have to approve this. Now I'm sure that this will not be problem, especially not for Toro Rosso who are mostly direct competitors in the field with McLaren. They would just love to give their nearest competitor a huge advantage out of the goodness of their hearts.

But Turbof1, I... well I ran out of arguments.
Brilliant, you grasped the concept of common sense. Your life expectations should now quadruple.

[MrPotatoHead]

Again this is not the topic to discuss any external help unless specific changes have been shown on specific parts. However, and I say this mostly to put this discussion to rest, I agree with Facts Only. Trying to have external help from a competitor is like bringing in the Trojan Horse, on both sides. Do you think the Mercedes Board would agree with giving away vital information to not only a competitor in F1, but to a competitor on the roadcar market as well? Vice Versa next to the ambarassement and company damage this will deal, Honda will, as jokingly as that might seem, have particular secrets as well it does not wish to reveal.

So on one end you have a helping hand, but with all fingers inwards of the palm reluctant to give anything away, and the other end you have a trembling hand also clinged into a fist. Do you think anything productive is going to get out of that?

But Turbof1, surely they will give Honda extra development oppertunities to get them out of the slum?
Of course, but that will not happen until 2019. Why? All of it is covered under the sporting and technical regulations. Any change or exception for the next season has to be done before end March.

But Turbof1, changes are made in seasons already underway all the time!
Why yes, this is possible. There's however a 'small' catch: all teams have to approve this. Now I'm sure that this will not be problem, especially not for Toro Rosso who are mostly direct competitors in the field with McLaren. They would just love to give their nearest competitor a huge advantage out of the goodness of their hearts.

But Turbof1, I... well I ran out of arguments.
Brilliant, you grasped the concept of common sense. Your life expectations should now quadruple.

This made me chuckle a little. Well played.

I think the best thing that would help Honda right now is more testing. Be it on track or on a full chassis simulation testing is needed for sure.

[wuzak]

Formula 1's Strategy Group is set to face calls on whether it should intervene to help Honda make better progress, on the back of the Japanese manufacturer's difficult start to the 2017 season.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-s ... da-897438/

They only need to stop interfering on normal engineering process with their development restrictions. Then Honda would solve all their problems by theirselves.

No need to give them any unfair advantage, as people is wildly speculating around here , only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.

Honda is MUCH better at their job than FIA or the Strategy Group at theirs, they only need these bunch of bastards to stop tying Honda´s hands with development restrictions

If they want to limit costs, start limiting aero wich currently is free and astronomically expensive (and also the reason for limited overtaking), but the PU is the core of any motorsport and should be the last aspect to be restricted

The other manufacturers are stuck with the same restrictions but have made better progress.

And, as we have seen the past two seasons, Honda and McLaren haven't been shy at exceeding the year's allocation for power unit components.

[GoranF1]

Formula 1's Strategy Group is set to face calls on whether it should intervene to help Honda make better progress, on the back of the Japanese manufacturer's difficult start to the 2017 season.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-s ... da-897438/

They only need to stop interfering on normal engineering process with their development restrictions. Then Honda would solve all their problems by theirselves.

No need to give them any unfair advantage, as people is wildly speculating around here , only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.

Honda is MUCH better at their job than FIA or the Strategy Group at theirs, they only need these bunch of bastards to stop tying Honda´s hands with development restrictions

If they want to limit costs, start limiting aero wich currently is free and astronomically expensive (and also the reason for limited overtaking), but the PU is the core of any motorsport and should be the last aspect to be restricted

The other manufacturers are stuck with the same restrictions but have made better progress.

And, as we have seen the past two seasons, Honda and McLaren haven't been shy at exceeding the year's allocation for power unit components.

Mercedes has started V6 Hybrid development in 2010, Ferrari and Renault in 2011 and Honda in 2014....this move is ok.

[etusch]

They only need to stop interfering on normal engineering process with their development restrictions. Then Honda would solve all their problems by theirselves.

No need to give them any unfair advantage, as people is wildly speculating around here , only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.

Honda is MUCH better at their job than FIA or the Strategy Group at theirs, they only need these bunch of bastards to stop tying Honda´s hands with development restrictions

If they want to limit costs, start limiting aero wich currently is free and astronomically expensive (and also the reason for limited overtaking), but the PU is the core of any motorsport and should be the last aspect to be restricted

The other manufacturers are stuck with the same restrictions but have made better progress.

And, as we have seen the past two seasons, Honda and McLaren haven't been shy at exceeding the year's allocation for power unit components.

Mercedes has started V6 Hybrid development in 2010, Ferrari and Renault in 2011 and Honda in 2014....this move is ok.

Merc engines producing by ilmor which bought by merc, ferrari get mahle engineers, Renault I dont know but they say that Honda engine is powerful almost Renault with working Honda way and without tji. So Honda is in a position better than acceptable. For true judgement, I think, we must wait first power update. And if Honda will be almost same power with others in 2018 Honda will be really successful

[Sasha]

Honda's CEO and Board have decided to take a new path for the company. No more doing everything in house but still will not buy the tech.Their plan now is to partner with the best in each field.So sharing ideas.They started this new company plan by joining GM with the future 2020 Fuel Cell and Hitachi with future EV.

So Honda and MB are in talks in sharing ideas on the PU.(to share cost to get it on the public road faster)

[bigblue]

Seems ... odd. What would Honda give MB ? Would MB give the absolute cutting-edge engineering in return ? How would each differentiate their PUs ? I'm assuming you mean in F1, or do you mean general F1 tech translated to the road, or both ?