24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

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zac510
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by zac510 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:09 am

erlik wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:39 pm
zac510 wrote:
erlik wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:32 am
This looks like LMP1 has hit a dead end ... there will be massive changes or no Lmp1 next year. Anyway #2 may win unless some more problems occur :/
Porsche has committed to 2018 and Toyota committed through to 2019.
Did you research these facts before writing your post (genuinely curious).
I did not research I heard just some info made by commentators. Well 2019 is not distant future and certainly is not 2018 either. What if some of these two pull out? I just wonder if there will be other manufacturers willing to cope with these expenses and technology at this moment or two years time (pretty much the same as in f1).

I am for hybrid technology but I guess some compromises could be done in order to cut costs.

this is my signature
Yeah I know what you mean, but technology always gets cheaper over time so by 2019 the expense will be dropping further.

Toyota and Porsche agreed not to many new chassis until 2019 as a way of reducing costs, but that seems like a better deal for Toyota as their car is faster, no doubt!

etusch
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by etusch » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:33 am

Toyota Gazoo Racing technical director Pascal Vasselon said he is “frustrated” by the series of issues that denied the Japanese manufacturer an elusive first victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

The attrition-filled race saw two of Toyota’s three TS050 Hybrids retire before the halfway mark, with the No. 8 entry of Sebastien Buemi, Anthony Davidson and Mike Conway finishing ninth overall after a lengthy trip to the garage to replace its front motor generator unit and battery.

While having entered the weekend as pre-race favorites and sweeping the front row with Kamui Kobayashi’s new qualifying lap record, Vasselon said the defeat was an even more bitter pill to swallow considering both Porsche 919 Hybrids also faced reliability issues.

“It’s frustrating because we [had] three cars,” Vasselon told Sportscar365. “We have had only one reliability issue in all the races with the three cars.

“If we were beaten by a competitor who had perfect reliability we would say: ‘OK, they they were better,’ but they were not reliable. So it’s frustrating. It’s frustrating.”

The pole-sitting No. 7 Toyota of Kobayashi retired in the 10th hour with clutch failure, in what Vasselon said was triggered by a bizarre pit lane incident.

He said it was the “most amazing” problem they had during the race.

Kobayashi pitted for routine service while under the race’s second safety car period before going into the queue at pit exit, where Vasselon said he was signaled to re-enter the track by a fake marshal, believed to be a driver from another team.

“It’s amazing… Someone came to tell him, and we have it on video: ‘Go go go!’ And normally, our drivers are used to the human action dominate signs,” Vasselon explained.

“From our side, we told him stop because the safety car queue was coming, and it was not possible.

“There has been, as you can imagine, some confusion. Start, stop, start, stop.

“So he had done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine… and burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist.”

Kobayashi ground to a halt moments later and was forced to retire the car at the Porsche Curves.

Vasselon attributed the loss of the No. 9 car of Nico Lapierre in the 11th hour to a collision with the No. 24 CEFC Manor TRS Racing Oreca 07 Gibson of Simon Trummer, which caused the left-rear tire puncture and subsequent fire.

“At the same time the tire destroyed the recovery system and the oil cooler over the engine, so at the same time we lost the engine and the gearbox,” he explained.

“We tried to come back in electric mode, and then we ran out of battery.”

The No. 8 car, meanwhile, lost nearly two hours replacing the front MGU, the same issue to hit the eventual race-winning No. 2 Porsche, which completed its repair in half the time of the Toyota.

Vasselon explained that its electric motor is “extremely difficult” to replace and had never been an issue in the past, while team director Rob Leupen explained they elected to also change the battery out of precaution.

Leupen admitted they “maybe wouldn’t have finished” the race had they not replaced the battery, which he said cost them between 30-45 additional minutes in the garage.

“The front motor is so reliable that we never need to change it,” Vasselon said. “It’s something we don’t do. It’s very integral and it’s not straightforward.”

Conway, who was denied a likely victory after his No. 7 car topped the time charts all week, said he was surprised by the level of attrition.

It resulted in two LMP2 cars finishing on the overall podium and the No. 38 Jackie Chan DC Racing Oreca 07 Gibson lead outright for nearly two hours, a first in the race’s history.

“It’s kind of crazy really how the whole race panned out,” Conway told Sportscar365.

“I mean when you saw the No. 2 Porsche go down 17 laps you’d have thought at that point that they’re out of this one. They were just dropping down the leader board.

“That’s what this bloody race is like. It’s not over until it’s over.

“We had cars to win the race in terms of speed, but a bit of a reliability and a bit of an unlucky side with Nico in traffic and stuff, and there you have it. It can happen so quick.”

Toyota not only leaves Le Mans without winning trophies yet again, but also having lost the lead in both the Manufacturers and Drivers’ World Championships to Porsche.

Brendon Hartley, Earl Bamber and Timo Bernhard have leapfrogged to the lead, courtesy of the double points-scoring round, and the Toyota trio only scoring points for ninth place due to a change in the regulations for 2017.

Leupen said the only thing they can do is regroup for the next round.

“We say it’s now Le Mans is over, we have done hard work for it, but we missed it, so we go to the Nürburgring and try to beat Porsche there,” he said.

“We have a World Championship to win and definitely already next year Le Mans is in the back of our heads.”

James Newbold contributed to this report



http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/vass ... portunity/

n_anirudh
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by n_anirudh » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:43 am

Why dont they use electrical signalling system or lights as they do in F1.

waynes
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by waynes » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:31 am

Le Mans isnt usually my thing but seeing as it was on i thought i'd watch the start.

i ended up missing about five hours of it while i slept :D

is it always like this? One thing that really stood out was the difference in speed between the LMP1 and LMP2 cars, never mind the rest of the field. Never knew how fast these cars really were :wtf:

thoroughly enjoyed it

wesley123
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by wesley123 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:13 am

n_anirudh wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:43 am
Why dont they use electrical signalling system or lights as they do in F1.
I'm fairly certain they do. I am sure I saw "SZ" lights next to the track
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

n_anirudh
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by n_anirudh » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:24 pm

Thanks,

But why the confusion then? Will ACO look into this?

AMG.Tzan
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by AMG.Tzan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:28 pm

Really sorry for Le Mans! So much nice racing these last few years...but they lost 2 big manufacturers (Nissan and Audi) through no fault of their own! And this year's Le Mans almost had no Lmp1 after mid-race! We need Audi, Peugeot, Nissan and even BMW (we need BMW at a top-tier motorsport at last!!) in Lmp1! And i think rules are alright as they are right now although Toyota thinks that hybrids are not ready for 24 hours! They only think i hate about these rules are the 1800mm cars! There was no need for that...2000mm or even 2200mm cars with full size rear wings look so much better, just like Formula 1 cars!

P.S Why is there still both GT3s and GTEs...i loved the old GT1 and GT2! They were two totally different classes! GT3 and GTE (as well as GTD) are almost the same...and same goes for the GTE-Am and GTE-Pro! Just go back to simple stuff!

santos
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by santos » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:27 pm

Althought all the drama... i think it was a very good race. I thought that this was the year of Toyota... they must have some kind of karma. There was drama for the LMP1, it showed that the a race it's over only when you see the flag. I didn't liked the LMP2. Very competitive, but it looks like a cup race. And in this category there was too many rookies making mistakes. GTE-Pro, was the best of the race. What a race.

Cold Fussion
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by Cold Fussion » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:02 pm

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:28 pm
Really sorry for Le Mans! So much nice racing these last few years...but they lost 2 big manufacturers (Nissan and Audi) through no fault of their own! And this year's Le Mans almost had no Lmp1 after mid-race! We need Audi, Peugeot, Nissan and even BMW (we need BMW at a top-tier motorsport at last!!) in Lmp1! And i think rules are alright as they are right now although Toyota thinks that hybrids are not ready for 24 hours! They only think i hate about these rules are the 1800mm cars! There was no need for that...2000mm or even 2200mm cars with full size rear wings look so much better, just like Formula 1 cars!

P.S Why is there still both GT3s and GTEs...i loved the old GT1 and GT2! They were two totally different classes! GT3 and GTE (as well as GTD) are almost the same...and same goes for the GTE-Am and GTE-Pro! Just go back to simple stuff!
Nissan was not a loss for the WEC as they only competed at 1 Le Mans and only a hand few of other races and they were absolutely dismal, worse than the old LMP2 cars. The notion that the hybrid technology is not ready for 24 hours is total garbage as well. The #7 car failed from a broken clutch not related to the hybrid power train (and without the hybrid it wouldn't have even made it to the Porsche Curves to retire), The #9 car had an accident and obliterated the rear end on the way back into the pits and the #1 car suffered from engine oil pressure issues, not related to the hybrid powertrain. An hour spent in the pits repairing the car is not unheard of at Le Mans. Remember Audi spent 50 minutes to an hour a couple years ago replacing a turbocharger and from memory that car went of to win.

AMG.Tzan
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by AMG.Tzan » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:43 am

Cold Fussion wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:02 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:28 pm
Really sorry for Le Mans! So much nice racing these last few years...but they lost 2 big manufacturers (Nissan and Audi) through no fault of their own! And this year's Le Mans almost had no Lmp1 after mid-race! We need Audi, Peugeot, Nissan and even BMW (we need BMW at a top-tier motorsport at last!!) in Lmp1! And i think rules are alright as they are right now although Toyota thinks that hybrids are not ready for 24 hours! They only think i hate about these rules are the 1800mm cars! There was no need for that...2000mm or even 2200mm cars with full size rear wings look so much better, just like Formula 1 cars!

P.S Why is there still both GT3s and GTEs...i loved the old GT1 and GT2! They were two totally different classes! GT3 and GTE (as well as GTD) are almost the same...and same goes for the GTE-Am and GTE-Pro! Just go back to simple stuff!
Nissan was not a loss for the WEC as they only competed at 1 Le Mans and only a hand few of other races and they were absolutely dismal, worse than the old LMP2 cars. The notion that the hybrid technology is not ready for 24 hours is total garbage as well. The #7 car failed from a broken clutch not related to the hybrid power train (and without the hybrid it wouldn't have even made it to the Porsche Curves to retire), The #9 car had an accident and obliterated the rear end on the way back into the pits and the #1 car suffered from engine oil pressure issues, not related to the hybrid powertrain. An hour spent in the pits repairing the car is not unheard of at Le Mans. Remember Audi spent 50 minutes to an hour a couple years ago replacing a turbocharger and from memory that car went of to win.
Yeah i agree with you...i don't see how toyota thinks that hybrid technology is not ready for Le Mans! Nissan was a loss to Le Mans in terms of manufacturers...had they produced a conventional design like the others they would have been up there with the other 3 and we would have a battle last Sunday!

DiogoBrand
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by DiogoBrand » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:24 am

It's weird to see Honda and Toyota getting known for unreliability. That's all I have to say ATM.

NL_Fer
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:29 pm

"And the problem is that he was at the pit exit, so he was in pit mode where we started [under electric power]...he was in a mode which normally should not be used, so he has done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine.

"The clutch is not made at all to do that. The clutch is to start the combustion engine when the car is at speed; it’s not to start the complete car. So he had burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist."
So does this mean, that if the pit exit light is red, the car has to wait with combustion engine idling and use the clutch to take off? Where it is not built for?

Cold Fussion
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by Cold Fussion » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:18 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:29 pm
"And the problem is that he was at the pit exit, so he was in pit mode where we started [under electric power]...he was in a mode which normally should not be used, so he has done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine.

"The clutch is not made at all to do that. The clutch is to start the combustion engine when the car is at speed; it’s not to start the complete car. So he had burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist."
So does this mean, that if the pit exit light is red, the car has to wait with combustion engine idling and use the clutch to take off? Where it is not built for?
I don't think so because you often see them parked at the end of the pit lane (like right before quali starts) with the engine off. I think when you consider what else was said it was a driver error which came about from the confusion with the pit lane lights and the marshals directing the car.

This begs the question if the car suffered a double mgu failure and then spun on track, would they be able to restart the car without destroying the clutch? Maybe it can't but perhaps they view such a scenario not likely enough to justify the mass on a beefier mass. Maybe they'll re-evaluate that trade off considering they potentially lost Le Mans by destroying a clutch simply existing the pits.

BanMeToo
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by BanMeToo » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:37 pm

Apparently they fined the guy who waved at him.

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/ ... re-920639/

Sevach
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Re: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2017

Post by Sevach » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:28 pm

Cold Fussion wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:18 pm

I don't think so because you often see them parked at the end of the pit lane (like right before quali starts) with the engine off. I think when you consider what else was said it was a driver error which came about from the confusion with the pit lane lights and the marshals directing the car.

This begs the question if the car suffered a double mgu failure and then spun on track, would they be able to restart the car without destroying the clutch? Maybe it can't but perhaps they view such a scenario not likely enough to justify the mass on a beefier mass. Maybe they'll re-evaluate that trade off considering they potentially lost Le Mans by destroying a clutch simply existing the pits.
Sounds like something that would be a logical development on a car that does 6 hour races at FIA class A tracks but not for the 24H of Le Mans, you can't be this tight honestly.



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