2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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max_speed
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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GPR-A wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 05:59
Kvyat did what Grosjean did in Spa 2012. Surely deserved far severe than a drive through. What a stupid driver and how many times he does that and never learns the basic lesson that, the races are not won at 1st lap. What kind of a driver is he that doesn't understand how much speed he is carrying?

Looks like Perez took the role of Magnussen to block the race leaders as the latter was out of race.
This is his last season in F1 , please bear him for few more races. he has lost the plot completely.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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ChrisDanger wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 05:35
Article from 2014: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/driv ... t-whiting/
Drivers are allowed to gamble on making a false start in Formula One, the FIA's Charlie Whiting has confirmed.

"We proceed on the basis that anyone who tries to anticipate the start takes the risk of incurring a penalty.

"But if he does take the risk and takes off just as the lights go out, he's lucky," Whiting added.
This post deserves an upvote, right there. That nails it, then all is clear. Case closed.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Juzh
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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I found the whole tire situation almost identical to russia. Merc strong on the US, ferrari stong on SS. Rai even said the same thing in the interview how balance was not right in the first stint, but was much better in the 2nd part of the race, in which he was pretty much on Vettel's pace.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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***To the unknown moderator who deleted my/this post - it took me approximately 15-20 minutes to write it. I see no reason why it shouldn't be in this topic. If you have an issue with it, feel free to point out the exact reasons. If this is the wrong topic for it, feel free to move it to the team-topic as team-orders can and should be discussed somewhere. :evil:

Vasconia wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 09:02
Bottas had a perfect weekend, and now its only 15 points behind Lewis, Mercedes can´t justify team orders right now.
A team doesn't need justification under the current set of rules. I'd also argue that a team may back which ever driver they think has the better chance, rather than how close they are in points. Bottas had a very costly DNF so far, but that DNF came from 3rd (and 3rd was the best on the table). So without that DNF he'd be 5 points behind Hamilton right now.

But then if we look at Baku where Bottas ended 2nd due to the clash between Hamilton and Vettel, we can see that Hamilton lost 13 points as a result of the headrest issue while Bottas profited by inheriting Vettels (penalty) and Hamilton (headrest) issue. So instead of 2nd, he'd have finished 4th at the very best. So 6 points less.

So after Barcelona - the gap should under normal circumstances (dictated by pace, not luck) have been:
Vettel 104
Hamilton 98 (-6)
Bottas 63[+15] = 80 (-20)

After Baku:
Vettel 153 [+6] = 159
Hamilton 139 [+13] = 152 (-7)
Bottas 111[+15-6] = 120 (-32)

One could also argue that Austria was also an easy race for Bottas because Hamilton's qualifying and race were determined by the 5 position penalty he would be serving, so his entire weekend evolved around the team trying to get the best car under the assumption of starting from the 4th row.

Yes, the gap between Bottas and Hamilton is 15 points now and points are points, no matter how or which circumstances led to them. I just wanted to highlight that there are certain factors that are outside the drivers control that influence those points and while Bottas suffered dearly in Barcelona by his PU imploding, he had a very, very fortunate race in Baku where his team-mate suffered an even bigger blow points wise but Bottas profited directly from it as a result from otherwise finishing behind his team-mate.

Having said that, I am quite impressed with Bottas so far. Yes, he has had the occasional off where he has lacked pace, but I am more inclined to put that down to the characteristic of the car, rather than in the sole responsibility of the driver. As the season progresses, I expect the Mercedes to become more predictable and therefore consistent, so it will be easier to assess the relative performance of both drivers. For now however, the gap is only so small as it is, not because of Bottas driving absolutely flawless, but because he is there to grab the points he needs to take when the situation presents itself, just like Ricciardo has been doing these last few races where his team-mate Max has clearly looked quicker (except here in Austria), but suffered costly DNFs.

The point being - I don't expect Mercedes as a team to use team-orders, but I think if Bottas is ahead of Hamilton (but not in the lead) and Hamilton looks to be clearly quicker, they will not hesitate like in Bahrain. I don't think the courtesy will extend the other way around, unless there is a big difference in pace. The only situation where I don't think Mercedes will issue team-orders, irrespective of who is leading who is if both their drivers are in position 1 and 2. Then I think and believe that Mercedes will let their drivers fight it out (unless there is a point to be made that there is danger from behind where Ferrari on the basis of a strategic gamble might be able to snatch away a position). Here too, I'd expect the team to favor Hamilton and not extend the courtesy to Bottas if the roles were reversed. That's just my gut feeling, don't take my word for it.
Last edited by Phil on 10 Jul 2017, 13:38, edited 1 time in total.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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As for the race, offcourse after such a mayhem in Baku anything less than that will be disappoint, still, i found the race rather boring. Only the end was exciting.

Kudos to Bottas for his performance. He was in great shape all weekend and did outstanding. His start was magnificient. It wasn't a jump start, but it was probably an anticipated start,
which he executed masterfully. Curious to see if he's able to do more of that. He did what was needed to keep Vettel at bay, great job. Deserved victory.
Hamilton wasn't in the zone all weekend, and in the race either. Can't have it all every race, so i guess it was just one of those days.
Raikkonen also rather boring again. spiritless.
Verstappen can you believe that luck. Offcourse getting taken out in the first corner doesn't help but looked like his car was gone anyway from the start.
Ricciardo great driving, just that shoe thing is really getting annoying.
Vettel was concistant, just hated his comments on penalties after his little baku stint. just shut it boi.
Force India was nowhere to be seen, what happened?
Kvyat what a mess.
Good driving from Massa and Stroll.

Don't know more to say or add. it was rather boring imho.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Phil wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 13:30
***To the unknown moderator who deleted my/this post - it took me approximately 15-20 minutes to write it. I see no reason why it shouldn't be in this topic. If you have an issue with it, feel free to point out the exact reasons. If this is the wrong topic for it, feel free to move it to the team-topic as team-orders can and should be discussed somewhere.
lol
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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....... :evil: :evil: :evil:

(I'm glad I still had it.)
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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Juzh
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Phil wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 13:30
just like Ricciardo has been doing these last few races where his team-mate Max has clearly looked quicker (except here in Austria), but suffered costly DNFs.
Verstappen was faster in ALL sessions, apart from Q3 (all FPs, Q1, Q2), where he choked. His final 3rd run was compromised by yellows, so he had no drs and then pushed too much to make up the time and he botched the first 2 laps so it's more or less his fault. I'd say he was faster still though and would give ric a hard time in the race all things being equal.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Ok. To be fair; i didn't see QF... I was at a wedding so only very limited access to updates by autosport unfortunately. Still have to watch it. But overall, Ricciardo seemed to be quite close this weekend...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Ricciardo really was closer (in all sessions, although indeed Verstappen beat him in all but Q3, yes I know, where it really matters), I was also more impressed with his racing skills this weekend then before. It seems he is stepping up his game which is good for everyone.

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Juzh wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 23:08
TAG wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 21:04
The only conversation about the a possibly jumped start aired was between the Ferrari pit and Vettel. Maybe Vettel could have gotten a better start himself if he wasn't watching Bottas' car?
Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.
Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.
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Gothrek
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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TAG wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 15:24
Juzh wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 23:08
TAG wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 21:04
The only conversation about the a possibly jumped start aired was between the Ferrari pit and Vettel. Maybe Vettel could have gotten a better start himself if he wasn't watching Bottas' car?
Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.
Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.
Do you? Looking at some images it looks like a jump start. But it resides in a gray area of the rules. So again rules where the FIA is not clear enough. Looking at the onboard, you can see it is a jump start. But the stewards deemed it legal, so ok.

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Gothrek wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 15:34
TAG wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 15:24
Juzh wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 23:08

Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.
Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.
Do you? Looking at some images it looks like a jump start. But it resides in a gray area of the rules. So again rules where the FIA is not clear enough. Looking at the onboard, you can see it is a jump start. But the stewards deemed it legal, so ok.
So once again, when Vettel parks his car outside the gridbox, he's a genius a real competitor always looking for the loopholes...

The rose colored glasses are heavily tinted indeed.
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Phil
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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Gothrek wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 15:34
TAG wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 15:24
Juzh wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 23:08

Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.
Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.
Do you? Looking at some images it looks like a jump start. But it resides in a gray area of the rules. So again rules where the FIA is not clear enough. Looking at the onboard, you can see it is a jump start. But the stewards deemed it legal, so ok.
Do people read the posts that have been posted already?

Again:
ChrisDanger wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 05:35
Article from 2014: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/driv ... t-whiting/

Drivers are allowed to gamble on making a false start in Formula One, the FIA's Charlie Whiting has confirmed.

"We proceed on the basis that anyone who tries to anticipate the start takes the risk of incurring a penalty.

"But if he does take the risk and takes off just as the lights go out, he's lucky," Whiting added.

Different rules for different sports. In sprinting for example, I'm pretty sure that you are NOT allowed to take a gamble. If you do it in F1 and get it right, kudos for you, if you get it wrong in that you're off (and outside the tolerance) before the lights go out, it's a costly penalty...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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Juzh
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Re: 2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

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TAG wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 15:24
Juzh wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 23:08
TAG wrote:
09 Jul 2017, 21:04
The only conversation about the a possibly jumped start aired was between the Ferrari pit and Vettel. Maybe Vettel could have gotten a better start himself if he wasn't watching Bottas' car?
Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.
Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.
That was all before anyone really knew exactly how the fia operates in such instances. What vettel saw was what we, the viewers, saw, and that is that bottas moved while red lights were still on. It makes perfect sense why he didn't believe it just after the race.