Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Zynerji]

I'm completely against GPS tuning to these items.

Hybrid deployment should be directly related to throttle deployment, not a track awareness via technology.

How is this kind of control scheme NOT considered a driver aid?

What would happen in reverse? What if it gave way too much in the wrong place?

The power deployment should be under the drivers control 100% of the time. Not a computer.

[Bence]

This! Mostly throttle input.. there must be a better way to do this! Even a simple addition of a innertial navigations system would have helped i think.

Let's dig out the 1981 Honda Gyro-Cator!!!

[Squid]

So if ERS deployment is built into the engine mapping, doesn't that mean that the only variable it can use is the throttle pedal? Because a lot of the talk going around right now is that Honda should be using steering input and whatever else to figure out when to deploy the ERS, but from what I understand about engine mappings, that would be both impossible and illegal.

[timbo]

So if ERS deployment is built into the engine mapping, doesn't that mean that the only variable it can use is the throttle pedal? Because a lot of the talk going around right now is that Honda should be using steering input and whatever else to figure out when to deploy the ERS, but from what I understand about engine mappings, that would be both impossible and illegal.

Yeah, boost is under control by the same engine management. No GPS/INS for you there.
But Pouhon flat?
Hamilton didn't take it flat. Not sure if McLaren chassis is that much better, or Honda power just not pushing the car hard enough on the run to the corner.

[the EDGE]

So if ERS deployment is built into the engine mapping, doesn't that mean that the only variable it can use is the throttle pedal? Because a lot of the talk going around right now is that Honda should be using steering input and whatever else to figure out when to deploy the ERS, but from what I understand about engine mappings, that would be both impossible and illegal.

Yeah, boost is under control by the same engine management. No GPS/INS for you there.
But Pouhon flat?
Hamilton didn't take it flat. Not sure if McLaren chassis is that much better, or Honda power just not pushing the car hard enough on the run to the corner.

Partly both I expect, I can't help thinking Lewis must have been travelling significantly faster through the corner however Alonso would not have had the tried it if he didn't have the confidence in the chassis to pull it off

[henry]

The shocking conclusion is, Honda still has no full deployment for a whole lap, the have to chose where to have deployment.

I don't think that ANY team has full deployment for the whole lap, the battiers allows for 33.3 seconds of hybrid boost at max power, and even with some amount of energy recovered while braking by the MGU-K and some on the straights by the MGU-H (I actually doubt it's much considering that it's in the highest possible power output mode) Spa has very long sections at full throttle.

I think Mercedes and Ferrari can run full MGU-K deployment for all of a qualy lap. It is likely that they don't but not because they don't have enough energy to deploy but more likely because they run part of the lap with wastegate open and the MGU-H driving the compressor.

The 33.3 second number has to modified, both as you say due to MGU-K input from braking and also the MGU-H. These numbers are not insignificant.

Braking will add around 1 MJ to the available energy to deploy. The MGU-H will output around 50 kW in self sustain mode reducing the battery drain to 70 kw. So they can run 5000/70 seconds ( 71) at wide open throttle in self sustain mode. And it is likely they charge the ES by other means on the qualy lap allowing some running in max power mode even if they want to run the rest of the lap in self sustain.

So forget the 33.3 second number. It is based on a misreading of the rules that says they can only deploy 4 mJ over the lap and the ES drain is 120 kW.

[baybars]

New lesson for Alonso: if you feel no deployment release throttle and then push it again

I think this lesson must be Honda.
Honda must restructure motor software including all condition.
Alonso Said that He lost 0.5 sec. for this issue.
Can you(or anybody) react less than 0.5 sec.(realse and push thottle)

[Juzh]

I think Mercedes and Ferrari can run full MGU-K deployment for all of a qualy lap. It is likely that they don't but not because they don't have enough energy to deploy but more likely because they run part of the lap with wastegate open and the MGU-H driving the compressor.

No on can deploy for entire lap at max power (120 kw) and wont be able to for as long as the rules stay as they are. It's very obvious they can't do it from how different acceleration is at different parts of tracks.

[ArcticWolfie]

I wonder how Honda could fix this issue.. maybe it only occurs in a specific engine mode? This hasn't happened before if I remember correctly.

[FvtecA]

I wonder how Honda could fix this issue.. maybe it only occurs in a specific engine mode? This hasn't happened before if I remember correctly.

I am going to speculate here and suggest a theory.

There are three sectors. S1 and S3 require low drag while S2 requires efficient downforce. So maybe the strategists decided that the best thing to do would be to use the tow for S1, use the chasis for S2 and then do all the deployment in S3.

Maybe, this is why Alonso's S1 was 30.6 and not 30.4 like his first attempt. But anyway, if they did execute this strategy then maybe, since it was not a standard case, Honda committed that cardinal sin of software engineering. Hard coding. They created a hurriedly put together map on the spot.

[harjan]

Embarrassing

[63l8qrrfy6]

I did say Spa and Monza will show if Honda have made any real progress.
Unfortunately it's still the same story - no power and no reliability.

Does anyone know what happened to Alonso?

[Shader]

I think we can all slowly start to switch to Renault PU Thread...

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... =4&t=22079

[nzjrs]

I did say Spa and Monza will show if Honda have made any real progress.
Unfortunately it's still the same story - no power and no reliability.

Does anyone know what happened to Alonso?

It was reported his engine sounded odd before the retirement https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1/stat ... 1109271553

[j.yank]

I did say Spa and Monza will show if Honda have made any real progress.
Unfortunately it's still the same story - no power and no reliability.

Does anyone know what happened to Alonso?

He is loosing his temper whenever he feels that he is embraced. After this he retires with engine problem. This is understandable for a great champion - they tend not to accept embracement. What we saw today should be expected: without enough energy to deploy per lap they are doomed. This is not no about the power. They have the power but they don't have energy.