zac510 wrote:I always though the problem was not that the air was dirty/turbulent but that the regulations year on year dictated shorter and steeper diffusers in order to curb underbody downforce levels, until eventually they reached the level today, where the air is departing at a very steep (vertical) angle compared to a deep, shallow diffuser or a tunnel underbody.
Scotracer wrote:zac510 wrote:I always though the problem was not that the air was dirty/turbulent but that the regulations year on year dictated shorter and steeper diffusers in order to curb underbody downforce levels, until eventually they reached the level today, where the air is departing at a very steep (vertical) angle compared to a deep, shallow diffuser or a tunnel underbody.
Well if that is the reason things are going to get even worse next year as the diffuser is going to be even steeper and shorter (I believe starting at the rear wheel's centre-line rather than the front of the wheel and rising to a max height of 17cm than 12.5cm).
Oops again FIA
RH1300S wrote:I don't know Ciro - but I think you have the right sort of idea (is it mainly the diffuser that cause the problem 'tho?)
When these discussions come up - often slipsteaming and over-taking get mixed in the same conversation. I think it can confuse the issue.
Sure - getting a tow helps overtaking. But it's not essential.
Giving cars the ability to follow each other as the chose and as close as they like would help overtaking (without needing a slipstream). We see cars with a significant laptime advantage being unable to get past a slower car these days. Because their speed advantage in corners is negated by the car in front. If they could hold that corning advantage, they would get into the next straight at a higher speed and have much more chance of making the pass stick.
OK - may racing experience is limited to Sim racing - but the tactics still work. Jamming yourself up someones arse rarely achieves anything other than contact and you getting slowed down; hanging back a touch before a crucial corner and getting a clean fast drive off that corner often sets you up for a pass at the end of the next straight (as if you had an overtake button ). Of course the opportunist pass can happen, but the do in F1 too - but are rare and rely on a mistake from the other guy.
So, cleaning up the wake is surely more important than allowing slipstreaming.
A slight aside - seeing top speed figures in the F1 races may not be an indication of engine power or low downforce, it might be an indication of a car that leaves the last corner with more speed than it's rivals - I guess a chart showing the accleration to top speed would be a better indicator.
Ogami musashi wrote:Are you sure they made them steeper and steeper?
In any case the FIA made them shorter and lower too. So any steep angle increase was very nullified.
scarbs wrote:I would suggest larger longer-chord lower-AOA wings\diffusers, may be with wings having a deep section to incur drag. Additionally restricting profile changes across the span.
Plus limiting wishbone\pushrod\driveshaft profiles to smaller and fixed cross sections.
AeroGT3 wrote:Quite frankly the 2009 rules are rubbish. They are NOT keeping the same levels of drag, they are NOT cutting downforce by 50% and they are NOT cleaning up the wake as much as the FIA make it sound like. And this is not on an optimzed car, either, so I bet there's even more downforce to be made, legally.
I will ask about getting permission to post the results here so we can see what garbage the 2009 rules really are.
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