2016 for Hungaroring WTF?

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Post Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:44 pm

I've been looking for some concept art of the circuit and I've found the following:
Image

There is an entry in wikipedia, but it doesn't say many other things. I haven't read anything about its length and I don't even know the orientation of the circuit, although the pics suggest that its counterclockwise (see pit entrance and gravel trap location). It will be 14m wide at least, and from the comments of Jorge Martínez Aspar it seems it will be a circuit with the safety of Valencia (Cheste, not the urban track) and somewhat faster. The layout is indeed very similar. Although the sweepers in the second half of the circuit look cool, I'm not particularly impressed by the first sector, with many similar corners. The picture also gives the impression of being absolutely flat, although that can easily be wrong.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
Miguel
 
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Post Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:26 pm

Hi Everybody, :)

First of all, I'd like to state that I'm Hungarian but I'm not here to preach, just want to add an alternate viewpoint in this case.

I've read here and elsewhere many criticism that have reasons for existence but there are also many ones that are simply too negative.

Yes, the races usually not full of overtakings but show me a circuit nowadays that produce more than 5-10 passes a race. It has always been difficult to pass at the Hungaroring but with the current regulations the case is even worse than everywhere else. You're maybe right, the circuit could follow the changes of the cars but the track was heavily modified 5 years ago in order to make the drivers' life easier. It seems they're not even try to use the possibilities.

The situation of the overtakings are much better in other categories, the GP2 and the FBMW did relatively good races on Saturday and when the World Series by Renault came here they were much better. So I can accept that the Hungaroring is at least 'unique' but there are much to think about in F1 circles about the concept of the technical rules. Look at Barcelona, Magny-Cours or Sepang, the case are similar there regarding the on-track action.

As for the contract extension: Guys, the situation seems to be easy. Bernie gets, what he wants, thats all. He gets the money what he asks for and between some borders we can provide the neccessary updates on the track. 5 years ago the layout was modified, for this year the paddock was massively updated thx not the needs of the McLaren Brand Centre and other giants. And there is something that I think we know very well: the actual Hungarian goverments realised that this country needs this thing and not only when the event itself is profitable. Usually the race generates losses but the country has great financial benefit from it so the whole picture seems to be OK.

And then look to Silverstone for example. There have been a constant fight between Bernie and the BRDC and other parties regarding the finances and the required reconstruction. We are not willing to enter such a negotiation, because we know that Bernie would go to Russia. Or Poland, or Austria or the Czech Republic. So we try to give him, what he wants instead of trying to be tricky.

One of you guys mentioned that the F1 should move to another venue in Hungary. There is no possibility for that. In the early 90s there were plans to build up the Pannónia-Ring circuit (where Schumacher is riding a bike nowadays) closer to the Austrian border because they felt that would be cheaper than maintain the Hungaroring. This was a stupidity so that was abandoned and since then everybody is focusing on the Hungaroring because simply there is not enough money to build up and maintain an F1 standard circuit. The private money is not interested and the government has much bigger problems than a new racing circuit.

Then you could ask whats up with the Balatonring. This is a business of a Spanish company that have huge investments in Hungary and luckily the success of Talmácsi Gábor and the increasing popularity could meet. The initial idea was to organise the race on the Hungaroring (again) but there were safety concerns thanks to the concrete runoff areas and the people in charge said that the top priority is to keep the F1.

Anyway look at the circuit, I don't think you'd be happier to see a race here than on the Hungaroring. From the grandstands the viewing pleasure should be as good as it is on the Hungaroring (which is very strong in this area compared to the other circuits) but there are not many heavy braking points at the end of long straits so the situation seems to be similar for me.

And for finishing this long comment: Of course I appreciate your comments and accept a few opinions but I feel that the negativity is driven by the hatred towards the country itself. The people and the men in charge should think about why the Hungaroring can be the longest standing track after Monaco and Monza and where are the other western countries? You seem to think that its a shame for F1 that the Hungaroring will stay. I think its shame for Great Britain and France and the others that they're not able to create business plans to make the liquidity safe. This is a race among the European countries and 'unfortunately' this time a poor ex-eastern block country seems to be on the pace.

Thx for reading this,

Viktor aka Misu
Last edited by Misu on Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Misu
 
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Székesfehérvár, Hungary

Post Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:45 pm

Fair enough, Misu.
I wouldn't use the word hatred. But it's obvious that racing fans from all over the world would rather watch parade-like racing in a Mecca of motorsports like Monte Carlo or Silverstone than in a place without worldwide famous racing traditions.
It's like if you take a modern Ford Mustang and put a KIA badge on it. It'll be just a bad car, that's all.

The track isn't hopeless though. There are many ways to improve it, and it's not completely flat which is very good.

PS: warm welcome to F1Technical, btw :)
Tomba wrote:Any thoughts?

Here's my improved version of your improved version of Hungaroring :)
Image

Changes:

T4 - was quite tricky so I kept it.
T5 - was a boring never ending understeer paradise. A hairpin would increase overtaking and keep the laptimes high enough, as other bits of the track became faster.
T6-T7 - the old version didn't prove to increase overtaking anyway (unless there's the desperate MS to bang wheels :lol: ) so I thought a sequence of fast S-es would make it fascinating to drive and to watch.
Also a big fast section from T5 to T12 would make it a lot trickier to find a good setup.
modbaraban
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Post Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:45 pm

modbaraban wrote: But it's obvious that racing fans from all over the world would rather watch parade-like racing in a Mecca of motorsports like Monte Carlo or Silverstone than in a place without worldwide famous racing traditions.


I agree, I'd miss the traditional venues as well, but there was a Grand Prix in Budapest in 1936 and a racer called Szisz Ferenc, who won the 1st GP in 1905 so Hungary is not completely without traditions, just there was a 'little intermezzo' thx to the WWII and the Iron Courtain...

modbaraban wrote:The track isn't hopeless though. There are many ways to improve it, and it's not completely flat which is very good.


This is interesting, because you draw a red line for the T11, which is pretty similar to what it used to be and the T11 was modified in 2003 to let the drivers to outbrake the opponent. It is rare but theoretically it would be a good idea if the chased driver runs wide at T10.

In my opinion the last corner modification wouldn't be possible that way because there are too many grandstands to move away. Personally I'd miss the T3, somehow it has a good rythm as I see the cars going and in simulators.

By the way, Bernie is the 1st to blame for the layout, he drew the basics of the track for a sheet of paper after the Budapest Népliget streetrace plans were abandoned :)

Anyway, don't expect for heavy layout changes in the near future, the CEO of the Hungaroring was talking about the '2nd step of the 2003 update' so it seems they're not planning to do anything major.

modbaraban wrote:PS: warm welcome to F1Technical, btw :)


Thank you very much, I've been a regular visitor of this site, but since I've been blogging I'm a bit rare on forums :)
Misu
 
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Székesfehérvár, Hungary

Post Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:59 pm

Image

Not too bad, eh?
mariof1
 
Joined: 10 Feb 2008

Post Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:17 pm

I was really hoping this circuit would be dropped. Either that or make some freaking improvements. It's just annoying to watch. Oh, and I hate Monaco too because of the lack of passing opportunities. As far as Valencia goes, well, let's see. It's not like Monaco exactly, so there might be a few passing places.
jddh1
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Location: New York City

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